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Thread: Final Fantasy XIII: How Will It Work on 360?

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    Default Final Fantasy XIII: How Will It Work on 360?

    We’ve had the Final Fantasy XIII demo for quite some time now, and our detailed analysis of the code (and by extension our first look at Square-Enix’s Crystal Tools engine) is now complete. First impressions? While the engine itself doesn’t particularly excel from a technical standpoint, it’s still a great-looking game, with much of the credit reserved for the development team's many artists.

    First things first. Despite some rumbling from certain quarters of the internet, the game engine is most definitely running at 720p resolution, with clean visuals brought out thanks to the inclusion of 2x multisampling anti-aliasing. The inclusion of MSAA is somewhat rare on PS3, but very common indeed on Xbox 360. What is clear, however, is that Square-Enix is facing key technical challenges, with variable and sometimes disappointing performance in the demo code. Translated interviews suggest these issues have already been overcome, but in the here and now, the apparently outdated demo is all we have to work with.

    Square-Enix is clearly targeting 30FPS for the game, but it is falling some way short in certain scenes and that’s generally down to the bewildering range of transparent alpha effects employed in the combat. This generally doesn’t tend to be so much of an issue for 360 (thanks to the daughter module of 10MB eDRAM connected directly to the GPU), but it can hit PS3 hard. The solution is generally to employ a lower resolution buffer for these effects (as seen in Killzone 2 and Red Faction Guerilla to name two examples), but right now, Square-Enix is adopting a zero compromise approach to the visuals in terms of visual effects and that’s what’s causing the lag. Where the company is compromising is with certain effects such as the characters’ hair. You’ll see an almost interlacing-style effect – it’s called ‘alpha to coverage’ and it’s an immense fill-rate saver, albeit at the cost of visual quality.

    But any way, onto the technical analysis. We have two videos for you to digest, available in both embedded article format and streaming HD. Let’s get going.


    Good read. Some compromises here and there. Apparently ps3 sucks with alpha blending (10mb eDRAM on 360 helps that) anE]d 360 cant do proper HDR with hd resolution and aa on like the ps3 can.

    In fact, the main cause of the frame drops in the PS3 demo (which Square has pledged to fix) shouldn’t cause many problems for the 360 at all. Square has clearly had issues handling transparent alpha textures – it’s the single biggest contributor to frame loss in the demo. And it’s the reason there’s a bizarre dithering around the characters’ hair. Due to the 10Mb of onboard eDRAM directly connected to the Xenos GPU, alpha blending has far less of an impact on performance with the 360. In some scenes we expect the 360 version to have the edge over the 'native' PS3 code.


    While the eDRAM gives the 360 tangible advantages over the PS3 (it’s the reason why so many cross-format titles have anti-aliasing on 360 while it is omitted on the PS3 versions), 10Mb isn’t really enough for a full 720p framebuffer with the added overhead of anti-aliasing. Instead, developers switch memory in and out of the eDRAM in a process called ‘tiling’. This incurs an increased geometry cost for polygons that span more than one tile. In plain English? Realistically we expect the 360 version to match the 720p and 2x multisampling anti-aliasing of the PS3 game, but at a cost – the HDR lighting in the PS3 game will most likely be pared down from high range to medium range dynamic rendering.

    Few games on 360 run with ‘proper’ HDR. Halo 3 is one of them, but this comes at a cost of a sub-HD resolution and no anti-aliasing. In the case of Final Fantasy XIII, the drop down to MDR simply makes more sense as opposed to savagely cutting down resolution or anti-aliasing. So aside from small changes to lighting, we expect the games to be totally like for like in the real time 3D sections, and due to that lightning fast eDRAM, there’s a strong chance that performance may actually be smoother. How small will the changes to lighting be? Considering we spent the best part of the day firing off 'is it proper HDR/isn’t it' emails to one-another, let’s just say that it’s highly unlikely any one will notice. A useful by-product of moving away from proper HDR on 360 will be that the alpha transparency issues the PS3 version has with the way it handles characters’ hair will most likely vanish.

    As it happens, 3D performance is the least of our concerns. The one thing that surprised us about the demo more than anything else was its incredible reliance on streaming HD video from the optical disc. Even in a demo you can finish in 30 minutes, there’s a ton of it. Assuming the final PS3 game is on a single layer 25GB BD, conceivably the game would work as is across four DVDs on 360. But all bets are off should the game migrate onto a dual layer 50GB BD as has been suggested.
    O damn for 360 there.

    Lower quality video is of course an option, but the real question has to be why the FFXIII team is using video at all for most of this stuff. There’s really nothing here that couldn’t be done in real-time. The pre-rendered sequences are more effects heavy than in-game, with higher levels of detail, but Resident Evil 5 is a supreme example of how the carefully stage-managed cut-scenes allow for more expansive LODs and more ambitious effects – exactly what’s going on here. Our guess? Such scenes will indeed be real-time on Xbox 360, saving gigabytes of data over the PS3 version with only minimal amounts of difference in the quality of the visuals. Streaming in new game assets may well require additional loading time, however. Of course, it may well be the case that these videos are only there to supplement an incomplete engine, and that they will be replaced with real-time engine-generated scenes in the final PS3 game too. However, our bet is that Square-Enix will make use of the storage on offer and keep them as excellent quality video sequences.
    FF without the great cutscenes is not FF.

    Linky
    Last edited by semitop; Jun 3, 2009 at 05:53 PM.
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    So a usual, the 360 is doing in real-time what the Ps3 has to play Video to accomplish.
    Sony BUSS...They get MSAA at last, only 2 years late as usual.
    So, this entire articke states that the 360 is running the code without problems and the PS3 is full of fail yet again... Frame rate drops, on a "SUPERCOMPUTER", oh yes I forget, running GPU optimised code on a CPU is something only Sony wants to do...

    Square-soft is known for movies, not stunning coding, so I will give you that..

    You left off this :

    The official line from Square-Enix is that work on the Xbox 360 game will only begin when the Japanese PS3 version of the game is complete later in the year. Our gut feeling is that this is not the case. While work on converting FFXIII itself may not be happening now, porting Crystal Tools engine that powers the game is another matter entirely (indeed, certain reports online confirm our thinking). If the core engine that runs FFXIII is being coded on 360 as we speak, as we suspect it is, you can bet that the team already have the methodology in place to convert the game, and will be addressing exactly the issues we’ve covered here.
    So this Game is a PORT, the FIRST PORT from PS3 to 360, and it running better with no slowdowns....ROTFL....

    The fail cake can cut up no more ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestersan View Post
    So a usual, the 360 is doing in real-time what the Ps3 has to play Video to accomplish.
    Sony BUSS...They get MSAA at last, only 2 years late as usual.
    So, this entire articke states that the 360 is running the code without problems and the PS3 is full of fail yet again... Frame rate drops, on a "SUPERCOMPUTER", oh yes I forget, running GPU optimised code on a CPU is something only Sony wants to do...

    Square-soft is known for movies, not stunning coding, so I will give you that..

    You left off this :



    So this Game is a PORT, the FIRST PORT from PS3 to 360, and it running better with no slowdowns....ROTFL....

    The fail cake can cut up no more ?
    Guess u not too interested in proper interpretation of what ppl say.

    Its not the first port.

    The game has been improved and runs better since the demo

    The engine that powers the game is likely to already be in use on the 360 in some other form so porting is not that big a deal is what that last quote u made means.

    The 360 cant do hdr,aa and 720p like the ps3 can, the ps3 cant do alpha textures like the 360 can.

    Square-Enix is clearly targeting 30FPS for the game, but it is falling some way short in certain scenes and that’s generally down to the bewildering range of transparent alpha effects employed in the combat.
    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
    You assume all risk for your use. © 2006 Azix Solutions.
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    Which is the first PS3 to 360 Port ?

    There is NO 360 version...The Video is PURE psfail, with the 20 and 15 FPS dipping.... LOL...There is no Xbxox version.
    They say it will run without the problems they see, and HDR would be the only issue.

    There is no CANT until the game is released. Then we will see a side by side comparison. Then the Failcake will divide some more, when the 360 version looks/runs better.

    we expect the games to be totally like for like in the real time 3D sections, and due to that lightning fast eDRAM, there’s a strong chance that performance may actually be smoother.
    Last edited by Nestersan; Jun 3, 2009 at 06:52 PM.
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    http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread...d=73309&page=2

    An early demo with FPS dips and 30fps most of the way through. Good stuff. HDR is a big issue and disc space. Like was said in the analysis video "proper HDR is sexy"
    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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    There is no Xbox360 Code...all you have to do is wait.. if poor SF IV and Resident Evil 5 so **** up on the Ps3... I have no hopes for this either.

    All those game u posted without FAIL look better on the 360... LOL.. ROTFL....Even as a lead SKU it is full of fail... That list you gave me is from people's opinions, not developer facts btw. So I am discounting
    Last edited by Nestersan; Jun 3, 2009 at 07:36 PM.
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    so in other words ufo tech fails again
    SLAPPA Phenom II AM3 Overclocking Essentials
    I HAVE HIGHEST OC ON TECHJA 4.2ghz
    4890oc beats gtx 285
    PS3 FAILCAKE
    ps3 only advantage is bluray
    4890 oc roundup
    http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sh/type/0/skugpezz.png
    Mi know dem fear mi!!!!! Gigabyte 790x ud4p
    phenom 2 955@3.8ghz 24/7 stable , 4GB ddr3 1333@1.5ghz ,3850 256MB (temp card) (4890 soon),700 watt dual rail psu, (overclocking rules) my avatar represents my personality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestersan View Post
    There is no Xbox360 Code...
    Uhh...square showed the 360 version at MS' E3 press conference on Monday. =P
    No one expects the Inquisition.

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