Satanforce needs you!!!

[pezz]

Because the point of my exercise is to develop an indigenous core of hardware-level programmers. Bare metal is where the speed comes from, and bare metal is where the money is. Game building is secondary, besides, using a library would be counter-productive, as we would be building our own indigenous libraries anyway, for 2D games a la Capcom and SNK. For now, I feel that using toy systems like these will help gauge just where we in Jamaica re in terms of bare metal systems programming.

Now, if we have people who are nice with more modern instruction sets, I would be more than glad to set up some Assembly lessons. We can then move on to more...interesting systems.. However, from what I have seen, both on this forum and in real life, Jmaiacans are more into Web Programming and System Administration - uninteresting stuff.

In other words, this is a low level programming club. So if you have better things to do than make silly comments about pictures and posters, and want to be recognized for something other than running and singing, I will be waiting.

Bare metal for games? i don't think so.

No game in the last 10 years have used bare metal.

i agree on the speed front though. But with Mantel and Dx 12 and the new Open Gl coming, wasting time and resource on bare metal doesn't seems smart.

And for 2D games? Seriously -.-

BTW I have the talent on all fronts.

[Satanforce]

No game in the last 10 years have used bare metal.

Make that twenty. I think even the PS2 used C in the Linux Kit.

And for 2D games? Seriously -.-

Oh hell yes !!! We're going retro! But my interest is in new RISC chips like the new ARMv8 and Cortex A57. Do you have a exprience with Assembler on those?

That statement makes this project appear MORE like an ego trip.

Ah, so you are familiar with our low-level coding skills, based upon the amount of such coding we do perform, Amirite?

LOL..so you start recruitment by belittling your audience...this should go far (NOT).

One of these days, you and I are going to take trip through UTech and UWI. By the time you get through all those guys who want to give you their "ideas", but no code or design document, those nice feelings of hope and respect that you have for Jamaican Computer Culture will slowly disappear. I am looking for fellow travelers.

[pezz]

No not quite, but like other stuff I could learn it.

I do have a full time job doing programming though. So i have to pass up on this opportunity.

I tried sending you a message but your inbox is full?

[Satanforce]

No not quite, but like other stuff I could learn it.

I do have a full time job doing programming though. So i have to pass up on this opportunity.

I tried sending you a message but your inbox is full?

Yes, I had to clear out my inbox. I understand your situation with work. It looks like I will be on my own for a while. Right now I'm going to be studying the lower specARMv7 cores in the MediaTek chipsets in the cheapo phones like the Huaweis and Alcatels that are going for like 8000 dollars new now.

Alright, I've started studying for coding in the raw. I have registered on the ARM site and downloaded the material for the ARM Engineer certification syllabus and the FASARM assembler. I will document my progress in this thread.

[Satanforce]

Alr9ght, got the opcodesand Instruction set down for a basic ARMv7 (no extensions). Will start making trivial programs.

[Skele Drew]

The speed might be on bare metal, but those gains are increasingly minor with the clock speeds, # of cores, etc that we use nowadays. Sure it'd be nice to have some really low level programmers aethetics-wise, but it's not really that practical anymore. People want results and they want them fast. That's why we're getting higher and higher level languages with compilers that do a lot of optimizations.

You're asking for people who know as low as 8-bit assembly, when 64 bits is fast becoming the norm today. Anything under 32-bit is already dead. As I said, it does sound like a nice fun project, but I fail to see how this would be feasible on a large production scale. Just my 2 cents.

[datdread]

The speed might be on bare metal, but those gains are increasingly minor with the clock speeds, # of cores, etc that we use nowadays. Sure it'd be nice to have some really low level programmers aethetics-wise, but it's not really that practical anymore. People want results and they want them fast. That's why we're getting higher and higher level languages with compilers that do a lot of optimizations.

You're asking for people who know as low as 8-bit assembly, when 64 bits is fast becoming the norm today. Anything under 32-bit is already dead. As I said, it does sound like a nice fun project, but I fail to see how this would be feasible on a large production scale. Just my 2 cents.

Correct you are sir. However, Satan is in a zone. Do not disturb.

[Satanforce]

Correct you are sir. However, Satan is in a zone. Do not disturb.

but those gains are increasingly minor with the clock speeds, # of cores, etc that we use nowadays......with compilers that do a lot of optimizations.

Silence! Minions! Ahem. Sorry. Yes, I know that most modern IDEs allow the use of c/c++ intrinsics to make code optimal. However, this is for the x86-64 architecture, which is, quite frankly, a mess. Focusing on backward compatibility can cause that. In the case of multimedia extensions using SIMD, a la ARM NEON, compilers are no where near humans when comes to equivalent of malloc() and free() in assembly. Same for stack operations. Also, they uses none of the more basic tricks one sees regular programmers use in tasks like Linear/Matrix Algebra - one of my upcoming tasks.

The 8-bit was a training exercise - a sort of Little Man Computer. I believe this important at start, as from mine and others experiences, training in computer engineering, theory and design is pathetic in Jamaica. (except for maybe UWI-Mona ). Plus, when it comes to study and coding, I would much rather study 20 pages, and do three coding assignments a day with a team, rather than study 60 pages a night and be sleeping standing up the next day.

[datdread]

Silence! Minions!

No lie Satan.

This little project is well intriguing to say the least. Can't wait to see the bastard child result.

You gonna FOSS or lock down?

[Satanforce]

I don't like the whole "FOSS" stuff. It will be Public Domain license - for use of third world, and most importantly, Jamaica STEM and national development.