View Poll Results: What structure should the Programming forum take?

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Thread: Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

  1. #21
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Good points so far, on BOTH sides of the fence.

    I find the points made in favour of the more popular language-specific forums in addition to the general programming forum, compelling.

    Suffice it to say that a decision will have to be made soon so as not to continue this process indefinitely. One comforting thought is that I'm sure that whatever the decision even if it's opposite to your stance, you guys will still be supportive.

  2. #22
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Hello again folks. I've been watching the threads, and I think that I've come up with an interesting observation.

    DarkAngel - I don't think I could have worded my opinions any better than you have. As CKnight has put it, you have a way with words, but I on the other hand won't leave you with them. I'm glad you could see my point without me explaining the issue with long winded detailing. Unfortunately, that may have just become necessary.

    As a matter of fact, I'd like to thank all of those who have supported the opinion, (as well as those who have objected). I hope CKnight doesn't think that I'm trying to undermine his authority - cuz that's the last thing I want to do - cause social unrest in the Techjamaica forums (LOL ;D ) I completely respect the opinions of you all - even if I don't see the logic of them.

    But enough of banter, let me tell you folks what the biggest problem with some people in this country is:

    NOBODY LIKES TO CHANGE

    I've worked with people who thought that using a computer was too radical and that typewriter's were just fine. It's no doubt since when they were forced to start using computers, they still used whiteout on the computer monitor to correct their mistakes (THIS ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN ON THE JOB ONCE!!!)

    I've worked with people who thought that IBM 386 computers running at 25 MHz are just fine for the business. The computers are fine, it's just that the business was stagnant. When their competitors left them in the dust, they wondered why they couldn't keep up.

    I've worked with people who thought that my ideas were too "radical" and that I spent too much time being a maverick. Heck, our country is being run by people who are still running it as though we were still in the 1970's. But we not getting into the politics. I'm trying to establish a trend here...

    Can you see the trend?

    While everyman is entitled to their opinion, one cannot deny that an idea that could potentially boost the capability of an entity should be taken seriously. Why do you think that Jamaican companies don't grow as fast as do American ones? Americans cherish radical ideas. Jamaicans don't. That's what pushes the development of technology. That's why most of you guys are now programming in php and not ASP. That's why you guys are using LINUX over Windows. It's because someone had a radical idea, that challenged the current way of thought, and ran with it. Those who didn't, got left out of the luau.

    I've been looking at the top 5 Jamaican sites recently, and apparently www.wheelsjamaica.com is WAAAY up there. Aparently, there are www.techjamaica.com people who are here that are also members of wheelsjamaica. How interesting.

    Wheelsjamaica.com has SO MANY SEGREGATED TOPICS and SUB TOPICS - it's no small wonder that site has grown so phenomenally (although that can be also attributed to its sometimes scandalous content ). Its membership has dwarfed techjamaica's exponentially. I believe there are close to as many car afficionados out here as there are tech afficionados ('geek' is politically incorrect ;D). There are people who are intriegued by both cars and technology. I would be surprised, if there was even ONE member of this site who reads these programming boards, who voted against the suggestion, that is also a member of wheelsjamaica.com.

    I WOULD be, because if there was such a phantom member, it would imply some very interesting things about their character. But that's not the point of this post. It is to illustrate how people prefer to think, not necessarily what they think - (Now I'm reasoning like Plato's contemporary, Xenocrates).

    But since nobody really wants to change and everybody else thinks nothing needs to be improved, or should be improved, I'm willing to withdraw my suggestion altogether. If my suggestion was put down with substantial reasons that are clearly and undeniably true, I would humbly stand corrected and make like the wind.

    However, NONE of the reasons AGAINST the suggestion stated earlier make any sense, since they would only logically lead us back to square one. For those who have studied logic and rhetoric, we'd know that is what is called a logical fallacy... But that only illustrates something else. But we're not here to judge people's character - no. That's below me. I'm only trying to show you guys who oppose the suggestion, that your reasons for opposing the suggestion hints at the fact that you simply just don't want the site to change. Is it laziness? who knows. That, is also irrelevant.

    That's cool with me. Just don't try to explain it. Just say, You know what Xeno? Good idea, but I like it the way it is. That's easier for me to swallow than to say You know what Xeno? Good idea, but it doesn't add anything to the site since that would only encourage others post in specific forums instead of one BIG one. That negates the whole POINT of this site altogether!! Can you see that? It's almost as though I'm being told 'No' nicely to avoid hurting my feelings. Look guys, I'm an adroid. I don't have any feelings.

    To say that it should not be segretated because:

    1) - Subsections for each language would need new sections for new langages - implies that there is no point in having a programming forum since we could talk about programming in the Hardware forum. That also implies that if some other tech topic were to emerge in the future, such as, i dunno, artificial intelligence, that it would not be added to the site if there was a real industry for it. That also implies a limited scope of thinking. That's not good. Not for a techie anyway. :-[

    2) - It will not drive traffic to the site
    - implies that you did not read my first post which CLEARLY said that we would advertise the site's changes. If you didn't directly have an involvement in techjamaica.com's programming and development, you would not know the site existed in the first place unless some friend told you or you saw an ad for it somewhere. So that argument is purely illogical, unless ofcourse, you all possess precognitive powers.

    3) - The poll reflects the overall sentiment of the board members
    - that implies that non-members of the board didn't vote, which also implies that there are only as many board members as those who have voted (for or against). According to my calculations, the number of votes falls faaaar below the number of people who have ever posted to this board. Explain that one for me. ???

    4) - You like not having to press the back button several times - Oh come on, are you forgetting that there are direct links to each section that you have come down through the hierarchy? You've been on this site longer than I have, and if you are going to tell me that I know something that you don't, that implies something else (not getting into that - it's irrelevant). This is clearly nothing but an excuse whose basis is thin air. The very nature of the site's programmed design puts very BIG holes in your logic. ???

    5) - General forum is a lot less intimidating - This implies that you were never a newbie and that you've never walked into an argument where people are all talking about PHP and ASP when all you knew was C++. I'm sure you were not born with full knowledge of PHP and ASP. That means that if you walk into a tech forum when that's all EVERYBODY ever talks about, you would be LESS LIKELY to post anything since nobody there ever hinted that they even USED C++. THAT is intimidating! If however you saw a forum for C++, Java, Visual Basic etc.... wouldn't you be more likely to post in the C++ forum than the PHP forum since all you knew (At the time) was C++? Hmm? Does that make your argument logical? ???

    There is a concept in the art of rhetoric that is called reductio ad absurdum - I'll let you look it up. But that's basically what I've just done to your points (all those who are against the segregation).

    Let me say it again, if anyone can give me a valid, logically sound, airtight argument as to why this should not be done, I will gladly retract all my suggestions and am most willingly to stand corrected. Let's try to avoid the huff and puff guys. I want logic, not banter. Thanks again.

    In the meantime, out of absolute respect for the other members, please note, this is only my reasoning, and I could be wrong, so long as you can prove it adequately and sufficiently. Like my colleague DarkAngel has so maturely put it, I am willing to agree to disagree on the matter. We all pals here in the end.

    - Xeno.

    (So much for the insurrection - L ;DL)

  3. #23
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Wow Xenocrates, talk about making your point ;D

    What is interesting to note is that at least one person voted in the last option when they would have preferred to vote for the first option but couldn't change their vote. I know that some will say that once you vote then that's it, but you should also bear in mind that this poll is not meant to elect the ruling party ;D, but rather express one's sentiment regarding the topic at hand. So in light of this, you'll realise that with the current 10 votes in, it's an even split between keeping "as is" and adding lanuage-specific forums.

  4. #24
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Ok, the deed has been done

    Six language-specific forums have been added: ASP, C/C++/C#, Delphi/Pascal, Java, PHP, Visual BASIC. These six more popular languages were chosen as the starters and more will be added as the need arise. The general programming forum will therefore serve as the place to post programming discussions not covered in the language-specific forums.

  5. #25
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Just a question...

    Would it be possible to have programming as a link that opens up to show the various sections? That would address Cknight's concern about scrolling down through a long list while giving others the sub-divisions that they want.


  6. #26
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Hey jamrock, that's how I thought it was going to be done. Any ideas Chris? Did you site managers decide on this unanimously? That was fast. Didn't expect it so soon....... I need to know that everyone is behind this. Let me restate what we're trying to do here in a nutshell for those who still disagree:

    1) We're trying to add functionality to the programming section - make it into a sort of help session / enhanced share the knowledge forum. We start off by adding language specific areas to the programming forum, thereby inviting specialized interests to post to the board. This reduces the likely intimidation that a general forum would impose on newcomers who read posts that are either of no interest or which they have no knowledge of. The general forum will remain. As questions become more common, FAQs can be created. I know of lecturers who'd be most willing to share their interests here. They've already created content. It's just a matter of transferral.

    2) We'd advertise what we're trying to do here to university campuses and professional institutions, to get them into the mix as well. We really want to get the tertiary institutions involved, thereby boosting the viability and usefulness of the site while enhancing traffic and membership (can you think of the advertising opportunities that would present?).

    3) Growth will be slow at first. But once the school year gets underway, we can expect to see some increase in participation on all fronts. Eventually, growth would be exponential. This would contribute not only to the development of the programming forum, but the rest of techjamaica.com as well. New membership means new ideas. New ideas mean better site content / development. After that, the sky's the limit.

    We have all to gain and nothing to loose here. But I'd like to know that most everyone supports the idea or at least agrees that the end validates the means. If we wait around, the benefits may never be realised. Your thoughts plz. Thanx.

  7. #27
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    jamrock, I'm afraid that the forums cannot be arranged as you've suggested, which would appear to be a logical way to arrange it. But when you think about it, you can quickly and easily glance down the list of forums until you see those that interest you. So for example if you're only into C, Java then you can see at a glance what's the latest without having to click into programming and then back out again to go to general discussion etc. I believe that we'll all get accustomed to the additional forums in due time.

    Xenocrates, while I don't want to suggest that consideration mustn't be held for persons' opinions, it's not all the time that a unanimous consensus is required to proceed. As CKnight quite accurately put it:

    Don't think that the poll results will inevitably dictate how the board will be set up and run, it's just to get feedback.
    We're sure that at the end of the day we'll all still support the change even if we didn't vote for it. We're not that partisan in here (TechJamaica.com) ;D

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