View Poll Results: What structure should the Programming forum take?

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Thread: Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

  1. #11
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    After reading the previous posts, I realise there may be a fundamental problem here. But before I say anything on that, let me address a few concerns.

    Firstly, The suggestion may not have been very clearly expounded in my previous post. I do not wish to eliminate the general section at all. Sometimes people will have logic related questions that may require the solution in to be in Algorithm format, before they can decide how they are going to implement it in a specific language.

    For example, someone may post asking how they could have a program that accepts input from either of two devices. Someone may respond by typing the following in the general section:

    Algorithm
    While user doesn't choose to exit
    Read Input From Windows
    If input type is Mouse
    processMouseInput
    else
    processKeyboardInput
    Loop

    Then the person who now has an idea of how to implement this thing, can ask a more specific question in the language specific section of the board. For example, they might ask "How do you get any kind of input for a console window in C++?" and someone might respond with the following:


    #include <windows.h>
    int main( void )
    {
    HANDLE hStdin;
    INPUT_RECORD ir;
    ULONG num;

    hStdin = GetStdHandle( STD_INPUT_HANDLE );

    ReadConsoleInput( hStdin, &ir, 1, &num ) )
    return 0;
    }


    in the C++ programming forum. See that? That way, the technicalities of the actual programming implementation are limited to the language specific forums. But the general ideas, algorithms, etc. stay in the GENERAL forum. I believe this was CKnight's primary concern. I'm glad that Chris made it clear to everyone that was not the intention. It's as if Chris was reading my mind. ;D (I guess great minds DO think alike!)

    Secondly, the fundamental problem here may be that it would appear as if there simply just aren't many programming saavy members. (please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I've yet to meet everyone) therefore, there is a slightly lesser tendency to even want a segregation in the first place. This is fine and I can fully understand that. If there aren't many people who like programming on the site, then segregation is pointless.

    However, the original post was regarding the issue that no one is programming. The reason why someone originally posted the question is no one programming? must have obviously been because the pogramming forum is probably in a state of listless despondency! It is quite simple logic, isn't it? If that were the case, that leads us back to square one - HOW DO WE MAKE THIS FORUM MORE INTERESTING? I hope I'm not confusing anyone here.

    Think about this: Whenever a business realises that it is not growing, what does it do? It engages in CORPORATE RESTRUCTURING. The business process rules are modified, the mission statement is modified, and the role of the company becomes more complex, taking on newer functions and expanding its viability and diversity. That's how Microsoft grew from just selling software to becoming an Industry giant in almost every field of computing. The same can be said of DELL, COMPAQ, AOL etc etc.... I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

    Let me wrap up as this post is becoming too long...

    Perhaps a better question to ask is Do we want this programming forum to do more than just be another general forum with a different topic?

    I'll leave you folks with that to, as a good friend of mine once said, "contemplate, and comtemplate well my friends". Peace.

    - Xenocrates

  2. #12
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Nicely explained Xenocrates. It was clear in my mind what you originally posed (cause I'm reading your mind ;D), but now it should be even clearer to others if there was any confusion.

    I think what's needed at this time are more suggestions especially from the programmers (existing and potential members).

  3. #13
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    probably best to leave it as it is until more people start asking alot of specific questions on specific topics. plus it adding all those sub forums would make the main page alot longer(scroller friendly).

  4. #14
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    [quote author=owen link=board=10;threadid=616;start=0#msg4468 date=1051043067]
    probably best to leave it as it is until more people start asking alot of specific questions on specific topics. plus it adding all those sub forums would make the main page alot longer(scroller friendly).
    [/quote]

    Sentinments shared. Wait until people show the interest, and then make the change. Nothing like wasted effort.

  5. #15
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Well...the time is drawing nigh to make a decision. So far it looks like we'll be leaving things as is ... unless a hoard of people rush in and say otherwise

  6. #16
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    First like Xeno I am not suggesting that we do away with the general section of the forum at all, so we can put that to rest, although I think that some people voted to let the forum stay as is because they were under the impression that the general forum would be removed, this is something we need to take into consideration because it will cast doubt on the validity of the poll.
    Secondly, I totally disagree with the owen's sentiments, the reason given about too much scrolling is laughable, and in fact most of the reasons given against sub-dividing the forum are weak to say the least.
    I must say that I am totally amazed that an attempt to make this forum more lively, encourage people to want to return, increasing active in the forum and possibly increase the site's membership is been voted against!


  7. #17
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    [quote author=DarkAngel link=board=10;threadid=616;start=15#msg4538 date=1051209555]
    I must say that I am totally amazed that an attempt to make this forum more lively, encourage people to want to return, increasing active in the forum and possibly increase the site's membership is been voted against!
    [/quote]

    That's a matter of opinion. No one is against the idea of "increasing activ(ity) in the forum and possibly increase the site's membership", however we differ in opinion as to how to accomplish this.

    Some people feel that having (or not having) a C++ forum isn't going to stop someone from asking a C++ related question. It hasn't been a hindrance in the past, and it's not very obvious as to why it would be one now.

    If you honestly feel that separating the topics is the way to go then cast your vote, put a viable reason forward and (if possible) give suggestions towards implementation.

    Lemme give you a personal rundown as to why I "voted against progress":

    I like not having to open multiple windows or having to click the back button multiple times to see the topics that are of interest to me.

    I feel that a "General" forum is a lot less intimidating to a new member/programmer than "ASP, PHP, C(++), COBOL, Assembly" would be thus encouraging said user to post his questions.

    I feel that having a forum separated by languages does not actually solve any problem due to it's obvious limitation, i.e., you can NEVER list all languages and opinions will ALWAYS differ as to which should be listed.
    Yes, you can say that the forum will be dynamic and they'll be added and removed as needs be, but that's just not practical. What are you going to do? Add a new topic to the list every time someone asks a language specific question that isn't already covered? Are you going to have some languages covered by there own forum and still have other languages discussed in the general forum? Something about that just seems...unbalanced.

    My suggestion, wait it out, watch the trends and make a more educated decision when the time is appropriate.

    The forum can be more than lively with just a general heading, if a user wishes to participate, he will, I don't see how being specific about what goes where is going to encourage him to make a post he wouldn't normally have done.

  8. #18
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    I don't know where you are going with all that, sub-dividing of forums is been done on a number of other similar websites and successfully so.

    [quote author=Darkangel]
    I must say that I am totally amazed that an attempt to make this forum more lively, encourage people to want to return, increasing active in the forum and possibly increase the site's membership is been voted against!

    [quote author=CKnight link=board=10;threadid=616;start=15#msg4541 date=1051215656]
    That's a matter of opinion.....
    [/quote]

    Yes it's an opinion just like everything else in this thread, so i don't know what's the relevance of stating that. : besides its an opinon that have substance because to vote to allow the forum to stay as is, is to turn down Xeno's proposal.


    I like not having to open multiple windows or having to click the back button multiple times to see the topics that are of interest to me.
    That's a point, but it's a very weak and indeed an absurd one, because it's the nature of how these forums are designed and there is not much we can do about it, and besides if one should go by your "logic" then maybe we should get rid of all the other main forums : Software, Hardware, Tech job, Games etc and replace them with just one forum you can call it General IT - guess that would be perfect for you eh, you wouldn't be annoyed by the need "to open so much windows" and I am sure that "it wouldn't prevent anyone from posting their questions" now would it?

    Oh btw i seem to remember that you where also against techjamaica having a chat room too, hmmm is this a trend i see developing here?


    I feel that a "General" forum is a lot less intimidating to a new member/programmer than "ASP, PHP, C(++), COBOL, Assembly" would be thus encouraging said user to post his questions.
    Intimidating? How can this be, the general forum will still remain for newbies and for others to post their non language specific questions or comments, and besides there will come a time for newbies to choose a language to programme in anyway.

    I feel that having a forum separated by languages does not actually solve any problem due to it's obvious limitation, i.e., you can NEVER list all languages and opinions will ALWAYS differ as to which should be listed.
    Yes, you can say that the forum will be dynamic and they'll be added and removed as needs be, but that's just not practical. What are you going to do? Add a new topic to the list every time someone asks a language specific question that isn't already covered? Are you going to have some languages covered by there own forum and still have other languages discussed in the general forum? Something about that just seems...unbalanced.
    No disrespect but that is another piece of absurd "thinking", NO ONE is suggesting that we have one forum for every single programming language; what was done last week (which was subsequently removed and this poll appearing, hmmm...) was quite OK- we could have something similar to the following, C\C++ and Java, ASP\ASP.net( using VBscript), and the other widely used\ popular languages without having a unnecessary long list of language forums.

    My suggestion, wait it out, watch the trends and make a more educated decision when the time is appropriate.
    It can't be considered prudent in the face of (to borrow a few words from Xeno) the state of listless despondency in this forum to adopt a wait and see attitude. Besides the man (Xeno) has put forward a proposal which have sub-dividing the programming forum been an integral part of it's implementation, now what other reason do you want? Eh


    Ponder on this if you will: Let's just sit and do nothing to accommodate Xeno's ideas and see what that accomplishes at the end of the day.

    The benefits to sub-dividing the forum is quite obvious and leaving the site as is can't be to anybody's advantage and certainly not to the advantage of this site, besides there is much to loose from not implementing the proposal and NOTHING to gain from maintaining the status quo.
    P.S It's a waste of time to be arguing about this so let's agree to disagree on this one because as you said we differ in opinion as to how to accomplish the task of increasing site membership, i just think you are not thinking intelligently well on this issue.

  9. #19
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Excellent points Dark Angel and I support ya.

    I think that it would better if the Section was separated.

    CKnight..
    I like not having to open multiple windows or having to click the back button multiple times to see the topics that are of interest to me.
    Interesting..... I am suprised that you find it easier to sift through a general forum that will contain a lot of threads (some of which their subject lines won't accurately state what is in it) to find exactly what you want to read about.

    Dissappointed also I am to see that your option lies on your comfort on clicking the back button over increased visitation to ........or better yet membership to the site.


    If the programming forum is divided into the various languages, persons who are proficient in the respective areas will find it easier to find questions to which they can help with and vistors quicky find the thread to which will be able to help them.

    This current system has worked well I agree, but we are not looking at the past or present but the way forward.

    Mark you CKNIGHT, your arguments stand fast for the forums like games and carrers and sales, but programming....... I disagree

  10. #20
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    Default Re:Proposed redesign of the "Programming" forum

    Such lively retorts. If only the forum always had this kind of kick (haven't seen it since the days of the ASP/PHP superiority discussion). DarkAngel, you have a way with words, I'll give you that, and leave you with them.

    I didn't patent this way of "thinking", nor am I the only one to share it. I simply put forward a case. No one has ever proven an idea by dismissing someone else’s. Anyhow, be that as it may.

    <Moderator>
    I will admit to the fact that the people who support the idea of segregating the board right now are putting forward stronger cases than those who oppose it (how come the other options haven't gotten any votes?) however what really counts at the end of the day; practicality or majority? Lets hope we never have to choose.

    The one thing we have to consider is that the poll is reflecting the overall sentiment of the board members and we have to take it into consideration.

    Don't think that the poll results will inevitably dictate how the board will be set up and run, it's just to get feedback. Sometimes people actually don't know what's good for them and need someone to point the way, but the admin did not want to go into this and make changes blindly and without the members knowledge and input.

    It may come to light that the forum will be broken up (probably sooner than later) but we still want to hear what people have to say (myself included, even though some have made it clear that they disagree) as at the end of the day they are the one's affected.
    </Moderator>

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