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Thread: Linux desktop distributions are headed in the wrong direction

  1. #11
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    What everyone may have observed is this:

    People getting freebies always complain about bugs and compare the freebies to non-free, closed software. Look at TuxMag. If some "proud" people neva so even-up fi compare it to pay-for mags, nor love to state how Mango Parfait step pon dem toe, then TuxMag would still be free. But everybody just love get and don't want to give, so might as well the volunteer stop volunteering dem resources (time, money, sanity etc.) and start charging! That is why I am using linux gazette mostly now. If you go to them with something that they find expensive or useless to do, they will shame you. It's not like when Mango Parfait nearly got censored for simply infering in the wrong way that KDE is easier than GNOME.

    So is linux ready for desktop? Long time! But people just love to have others put things the way they like it. They don't want to do it themselves. That is why linux might end up being just another expensive IOS (idiot operating system).

  2. #12
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    Geeks while they promote choice, are very intolerant of people who do make choices that they do not agree with.
    Those who do not understand UNIX are doomed to reinvent it poorly.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by carey
    What everyone may have observed is this:

    People getting freebies always complain about bugs and compare the freebies to non-free, closed software. Look at TuxMag. If some "proud" people neva so even-up fi compare it to pay-for mags, nor love to state how Mango Parfait step pon dem toe, then TuxMag would still be free. But everybody just love get and don't want to give, so might as well the volunteer stop volunteering dem resources (time, money, sanity etc.) and start charging! That is why I am using linux gazette mostly now. If you go to them with something that they find expensive or useless to do, they will shame you. It's not like when Mango Parfait nearly got censored for simply infering in the wrong way that KDE is easier than GNOME.

    So is linux ready for desktop? Long time! But people just love to have others put things the way they like it. They don't want to do it themselves. That is why linux might end up being just another expensive IOS (idiot operating system).

    i concur.. and i'm really pissed that tux monthly is now a paid mag when i got the email it really shocked me.. i'm thinking of subscribing to linux journal and getting the actuall physical magazine. linux becoming an ios.. :rofl

  4. #14
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    Bwoy, when i think about linux, i wish i was a better programmer. I wish i could gather a team of people and sit down and actually make linux something i could give ma granny... ok maybe not her, but i could give ma mother (intermediate windows knowledge) and she uses it with as little problems as possible, installing and using it without even realizing she isnt using windows.

    An easy way to understand what i am saying... To all the linux professionals, DK, Pigeonflight, Gillion, Yatta etc... how long did it take you to reach this level? And on a scale of 1-10 (10 being super experto) what level would you say your linux skills are at?


    Before you answer that i will say that my 4 year old niece is able to use a computer with windows at a lvl of about 2 out of 10. She can put in her cds and play them etc, I 2 or 3 years ago had problems getting a CD to play when i was using Suse...
    Last edited by Skillachi; Jul 31, 2006 at 09:20 AM.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skillachi
    Bwoy, when i think about linux, i wish i was a better programmer. I wish i could gather a team of people and sit down and actually make linux something i could give ma granny... ok maybe not her, but i could give ma mother (intermediate windows knowledge) and she uses it with as little problems as possible, installing and using it without even realizing she isnt using windows.

    An easy way to understand what i am saying... To all the linux professionals, DK, Pigeonflight, Gillion, Yatta etc... how long did it take you to reach this level? And on a scale of 1-10 (10 being super experto) what level would you say your linux skills are at?


    Before you answer that i will say that my 4 year old niece is able to use a computer with windows at a lvl of about 2 out of 10. She can put in her cds and play them etc, I 2 or 3 years ago had problems getting a CD to play when i was using Suse...
    If I understand you correctly, your method would be to graft a Windows GUI into linux. However, consider the fact that Windows copyrights/patents all their technology. They even wanted to sue over the use of the term window in another OS at one point. So cloning the Windows interface is out of the question.

    Then there is the fact that people are use to Windows GUI because they were fist introduced to it. But, ask anyone who were DOS users before the GUI came and they will tell it took a long time to get used to the GUI. They will tell you that if command.com wasn't there, it would be difficult to get anything done.

    So since your mother has intermediate knowledge of Windows, then using any other OS, be it Mac, linux or *BSD, would be a catholic hell!

    Therefore the only way to satisfy that is always to put a choice, which is what most linux distros offer - a choice to have a GUI similar to Windows.

    BTW, the Windows GUI is more than 15 years old now. Do you think they can even risk changing it without losing the consumers they had all these years? That is why this Vista that is coming out will be so flawed and problematic. They need a new interface to manage the technologies that are embedded and what comes after Vista will have that new interface. So, I hope you Windows users learn to adapt quickly

  6. #16
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    No man, you misunderstanding me, thats not what i want to do. All the distro's i have used so far do a good job of copying the windows GUI, (you will see me speak about suse alot because its the distro i'm most used to), suse does so excellently.

    What i want, is not the pretty looks but the functionality... why do i have to go to a console window everytime i want to install a program? Why do i have to use the console window at all? Why is it that a simple thing as changing the time takes 5 minutes to figure out? (well that doesnt really apply to newer distro's) Why is it that everytime there is a major update i have to go and download 4GB's worth of stuff, and then reinstall the o/s and then reinstall all the drivers that took me months to find... (This last one really doesnt apply becuz i've never tried uninstalling a program, because i install only what i need) Why can't i uninstall a program by clicking a little uninstall icon.

    Yes we all know microsoft has the support of money behind it, but linux has the support of programmers lots of them, if the o/s is worked on, day by day with 1 feature added a week or a month, within a year we will see something as easy to use as windows. (Rome wasn't built in a day)
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  7. #17
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    With Slackware and its derivatives, pkgtool is available. With pkgtool you can select which program you want to (un)install. The best thing too is that Slackware seems to me to have the simplest method of creating packages. So, it is a low learning curve in making your own packages. I didn't have time to learn much, so I use checkinstall.

    Now, the major updates that you speak about are just like moving from Win95 to Win98. Isn't it? Or from 2000 to XP. It is always best to do a complete reinstall. That is why you going to have your system directory different from you data directory. You have the /home different from the others. No one will notice the difference. There is no reason to have all your eggs in one basket.

    Also, linking in unix is much better than windows. ln -s allows you to link to any file. And you can also have a script as a shortcut, just like bat files in Windows.

    And the fact that open source OS so customizable. It is just up to you to play your part in this open source design and locate a tool that is most likely available to manage whatever you want to manage. No two persons think alike and you wouldn't expect everything you want to be on one CD. That is why it is good to take a look at Freshmeat.net or Sf.net every once in a while. Maybe Tucows.com too.

    Then you can configure your system the way you see fit. But, be careful though. The more GUI based a system is the harder it is to configure. Suse is notorious for having custom kernels and scripts that are incompatible with other systems. So is Redhat and most of the EZ linuces. That is the main reason why I migrated from Vector to Zenwalk.

    One more thing. Cookup a live CD nuh? You can do it yourself. Don't need a lot of cooks for it. Then torrent it to us to try.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skillachi
    ...What i want, is not the pretty looks but the functionality... why do i have to go to a console window everytime i want to install a program? Why do i have to use the console window at all? Why is it that a simple thing as changing the time takes 5 minutes to figure out? (well that doesnt really apply to newer distro's) Why is it that everytime there is a major update i have to go and download 4GB's worth of stuff, and then reinstall the o/s and then reinstall all the drivers that took me months to find... (This last one really doesnt apply becuz i've never tried uninstalling a program, because i install only what i need) Why can't i uninstall a program by clicking a little uninstall icon....
    But as they said - Linux wasn't for Ease of Use OR any of these stuff u mentioned.
    It wasn't for your mother OR grandmother to use. It was built for Techy - even though it seems a techy really prefers the more difficult implementation

    Anyway, the article speaks of the use of more "focused" implementations but i have a problem with this "focused" look at things.

    He speaks of specialised Boxes for each application type, however this implementation is not viable in alot of instances. Persons buy multi-purpose OS's cause more situations exists where people expect their computer to do multiple things.

    Unless Linux is going to stick with the Specialised label - then the use of it is never going to go any further than it is now - unless it really doesn't need to go any further

    I do understand his point that because of the current push for Desktop Linux, the specialized Linux's are suffering BUT the desktop market is much much bigger than this focussed market he is speaking of and if you want Linux to be more wide spread - then desktop is the way to go....If not, time to GET RE-FOCUSSED.
    The trouble with learning from experience
    is that the test comes first and
    the lesson afterwards

  9. #19
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    @carey - I have heard of slackware... never exactly used it before but heard of it. And no my idea of a major update is not moving from 98 to 2000 or 2000 to xp. My idea of a major update is moving from say... xp sp1 to xp sp2 (not saying that the sp2 wasnt around 500 mb's), The upgrade was as easy as downloading the big *** file and then pressing install... much different in the linux world where people release newer versiosn of distro's within months of the previous release and require a reinstall (and we all know of the problem you can face when installing a linux distro). Next example you gave also dealt with the use of the console to do stuff, programming is hard enough without having to try to remember 5000 more commands to use in a console, the reliance on the console seems to be a step back instead of forward for linux... its like having windows xp in the foreground, but still relying on DOS.

    @zro_tolerance - bwoy i thought i myself was a techy but mi cant take the complication, much more complicated things to worry about




    Bottom line, in my opinion the move to linux is too hard, too time consuming and too complicated. If you are willing and able you will make the move successfully (of course with about 3 or 4 reinstalls), if you dont have the time to learn, you might as well stick to os/x or windows as linux isnt made for the general public. Oh how i wish to become as elite as the linux guru's in this forum (the 10 or so people), so i dont even fret when installing something as i know just how to fix it....
    Laptop: HP DV6700t - Core 2 Duo T9300 2.5Ghz, 3GB RAM, Nvidia 8400m GS, 250GB HDD. Ubuntu 12.04 and Windows 7
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  10. #20
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    the reliance of the console a step back... :O you mad skillachi senpai. if you have any clue how powerful that bourne again shell is. all this talking wont change the fact that linux is for a particular usergroup no matter how friendly it gets if the system architecture stays the same that fact will always remain (predominant usergroup the os is made for).

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