Which Language First?

[icymint3]

this is where i disagree. while c/c++ are the languages chosed by academics to teach programming, are not necessarily the best languages to learn programming. personally i found that persons get stuch learning the syntax and still dont know how to solve even small problems.

before learning any strict language, i think you should read some material on design patterns... preferably one that does so without code. then your knowledge can be applied to any language.

i think javascript is good you need no additional tools... plus you can do things that use images and text and events without thinking about how advanced those things are. it also supports most of the different programming concepts.
- unstructured
- structured (procedural)
- object oriented
- functional

trust mi a prob'ly di best ting cause you can do anything you want as a beginner minus the headaches. and theres a lot of tutorials and example code... they will all work

[jackal]

javascript? man plz.
If u really wanna get into programmin' start wit sumptn like scheme......yeah get the fundamentals down.

Function a return function...recursion....when u have di fundamentals the rest is jus syntax.

[icymint3]

and all the brackets...
which newbie woul be impressed with prefix expressions.
we can all agree functions returning functions and recursion are basic.

i do agree with you though... functional programming.

i still dont hear the reason why javascript is not a good start... please expound.

[crosswire]

I am not a real javascript fan, more C++/C#. I used to dabled with javascript without knowing the syntax of javascript, just copy and paste. I then learnt C++ and never fancied C or java.

Your explanation is sound, but inspite of your points I would suggest C# as a better language to learn programming, and I am not feeling C# that much either.

VS 2005 intellisense kills any C++ syntax problems. C#2.0 has much of the properties of javascipt. It is only a bit harder to grasp that javascript

before learning any strict language, i think you should read some material on design patterns... preferably one that does so without code. then your knowledge can be applied to any language.

This is some heavy stuff and I agree with you 100%

I did not mean to pull of C++ as a language with a lot of syntax knowing which is true. The purpose of learning programming is really solving problems and not learning syntax. It is just likely that some syntax leaning is inevitable. Javasript is more relaxed and is better in that respect. I am still interested in the strictness in C++, say binding, because no matter how you try to abstract away the ground level like casting a double to int, there is always a realistical real world impact, even though it is not a part of the problem in focus.

At the level of solving a problem through design, javascript and C# would handle most designs. C++ would handle enough without causing difficulty to the user. At this point, I would agree again on Design Patterns. Perhaps you feel that doing some actual design problems is good?

[owen]

I'm old schoool but I say get something light and simple

I wouldn't suggest javascript because its is rather tied into the html and really html is a messy thing. And not to mention .NET.


QBASIC, DOS C++, Turbo Pascal 7, or anything that you can run and compile in a second. If you can compile in a at least 5 seconds I'd approve it.

[death_knight]

Q and dos sorta wayy back still. why not let him learn something decent the first time around.. i say. go straight to c++ but before you do get a programming structures ebook of some sort. get familiar with conditionals, and all the programming logic that are the same straight accross the board (only thing that will change is syntax) after you've learnt all the programming structures pic your own langauge that you wanna do dont listen to any of us.. i'ld say pick one thats more useful to you and what you wanna do.... but just make sure you understand all your programming structures. it all boils right back down to that in the end no matter what language your using.. (also your logic,, if you cant think things through its gonna be difficult for you, (you gonna have to do alot of trail and error, if you dont have the ability to conceptualize you code to the end or at least on a modular basisi)

[icymint3]

Like i said i have nothing against c#, java or scheme... personally i love to program in c#, secondly c++ then c or java. I use VB.NET at work. their syntax is not much different but they all need tools and configuration. that is where scheme comes up short, along with java (unless you have access to an ide Eclipse, JBuilder, Forte etc). Most of the other introductory languages have this fault... python, ruby, prolog, scheme, haskell, logo).

i think javascript is a nice middle-ground. plus it can script windows ( equivalent to BAT files and Shellscript), and it can be compiled in .NET ( jsc.exe ).

when you reach that level you can have functions returning functions, recursion, arrays of functions, events, AJAX
-- AJAX need i say more (checkout www.live.com)
.

[death_knight]

take my advice man.. get your structure down first before touching anything.

[Artificial_Intelligence]

Bite the bullet. My suggestion is the same as some of the other guys here! I say go with (traditionally taught programming language) C/C++. The fuss about syntax is over rated, if you had to learn French, Spanish, math or any other language you would have to learn the grammar (AKA syntax) of the language, some will say grammar in spoken language cannot be compared to syntax in a programming language, the point is to learn the language you would have to learn a few key things about the language and in programming it’s no different.

Compile don’t interpret. Languages like java script, PHP and python (I love python by the way) are known as interpreted languages, that is, you write the code and execute it in a special environment (which is why you need the VB6 runtime, python interpreter, etc). Most of those languages do a lot for you; things that you must know and in some cases do for yourself if you were using a compiled language(c/c++, Pascal). Compiled languages execute on the operating system for which the code was compiled. If you start with languages that do too much for you then you may never appreciate the power of a Pascal, c or c++ (used heavily in robotics). Your leaning curve my also increase because an interpreted language does not dictate that you learn a number of key items need to handle compiled languages. If you learn a compiled langue from the start then when you get to the interpreted languages and you get stuff like garbage collection done for you, you will have a greater apperception for it, as well as not having to do pointer arithmetic

Think solution. As one of the other buys mentioned, take some time (more than you take to code) to understand and design your solution.
Most programmers including myself have gotten used to starting with the code, as opposed to designing the solution Algorithms, flow charts are the basic’s you need to know, later you can get into UML. This point I should add is probably more important than the language you may eventually end up using, as it will and can impact the quality of your work for the better(frequently used) or worse(little or not use).

[owen]

Artificial_Intelligence knows what he is talking about