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Thread: The True Nature of God

  1. #11
    igodit Guest

    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    Xeno, that it itself is a ministry, for me especially. I pray that other understand most of what you have posted. It was only recently since I became a Christian that I begun to truely understand the Bible.

    Though I have not been to church in weeks, I appreciate it's teachings. I have learnt more about God's principles

    principle n
    basic assumption
    ethical standard
    way of working
    source
    characteristic ingredients


    Principle n
    God

    Encarta Dictionary

    We can only think of God with the limitations of our mind, far worst if we have not yet accepted Him.

    Just my own thoughts, but would we really appreciate God if we were not born in sin? Not saying that was what He had intended for us or not, because I don't know the mind of God, but when was the last time you were ever in serious trouble and cried out to Him, "Oh God, why me!".

    Did you cry out because your mom goes to church every Sunday? Or your sister's friend's father is a pastor? No, you in yourself know the Lord my God is the source of everything.

    I remembered last year November, I had no thoughts of God. Other than the typical influences always pushing me to become a Christian. Lately that push has not been there, when I say lately I mean for years, because the evidence of God was right there in front of me. Then one incident one evening, my older sister got home from work as she would everyday before that. That evening was different, she got held up by two men with guns, I heard he scream out.

    As I got up and ran to the front door, I saw one of the men in the front seat of the car and the other getting into the back. I did not see my Sister, thought flash through my mind, "No, they can't kidnap my Sister". Sounded the alarm, my Dad, my Mom and younger Sister in NYC. I remembered it clearly, how I felt, the darkness of the night and I creid out to God.

    My Sister was only to leave in a few days to the UK, and I cried out to HIM for the first time. I never felt the love that I had for my Sister this great in me. I looked up into the night of the sky and tears ran down my face, then the rain fell upon me for a few minutes.

    My Dad and the authorities came to the house, noone knew where to find my Sister. She turned up with our neighbours a few houses away from us, shaken and in tears. Apparently she ran off leaving her keys and everything. I shared the news with my Mother who before was so calm and collective, broke down in tears thanking God.

    The car was retreived later that night.

    How did that impact me, in seconds I felt as though I lost everything and in seconds it was all returned. Which is why one of my most treasured books in the Bible is Job. Next year January 14, 2003 I accepted the Lord as my saviour.


    Just wanted to share that with you all.

    God never changes, if He did I would be really worried. Trust me there is a lot of things that He has done for a greater good.

  2. #12
    igodit Guest

    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    Look at this Jesus was betrayed by his very own disiciple, what if he was not. Then he would not have been crucified and not have died for our sins.

    What is God did not let lose the devil on Job, taking his material wealth away, his children everything and the man still held tight to God. Some of us merly lose something and we let go of God.

  3. #13
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    Possesses all the knowledge of everything that is, could, and will be (Omniscience)
    Yet, God chooses to know.
    Many still cannot allow themselves to grasp this concept. Many times they will say "God a god, him know EVERYTHING... how yuh fi seh dat??!! Yuh mad!!!?"
    Is it so hard to understand that He chooses to know?
    Take for example the instance in the garden of Eden. If God knew that Adam and Eve would commit a sin, would it not be hypocritical to have offered them everlasting life in the first place knowing well that they would not attain it?
    Why would he feel hurt by their/our actions?
    Another question that can arise from that issue: Why create humans in the first place since he knew they would sin against him? Is it his intention that we become sinners?

    Sure, he knew of the possibilty of the first humans choosing to rebel, afterall, he created us as free souls able to make decisions. It wouldn't be incorrect to say that he did not know that satan would rebel against him. Could he have known? Ahhh... now there is another question and the answer would be yes.

  4. #14
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocrates
    Matronyx, I'm gonna have to tackle you on that one...
    Tackle away Xeno, tackle away.... ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocrates
    Matronyx, to say that God chooses is erroneous. To choose, is to decide between options for which you can control only one.
    Funny, I chose to wear my sandals this morning over my sneakers. I know I had control over that.
    Remember that God chose the people of Israel.
    He even chose their kings. The bible says so. 1 Kings 8:14
    Are you saying that he would have chosen David to be king regardless of the man's actions? That would be contrary to what the bible says.
    Did you know that God can change his outlook on people? Yes, he did so in regard to the Ninevites, the people Jonah was commisioned to preach to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocrates
    Yes He knew that Adam would sin. Yes He knew that Lucifer would defy him. Yes he knew that the Children of Israel would sin against him a multiplicity of times. But where you made the mistake Matronyx, is to assign human properties to God (as owen rightly said). When the Bible says that God was vexed in his heart over the people's sin, do you think that God himself was actually vexed?
    Are you saying that to feel regret is an abilty belonging only to humans?
    What about love?
    The bible clearly said that God felt regret over creating humans and thus he brought the flood on wicked mankind. Genesis 6:6
    In regard to him knowing that Satan would be rebellious.... just examine what you know about God and think about that. Evil cannot be created from good.
    John 8:44 shows that Satan was once in the truth. Satan chose to leave the truth. He was created perfect just as how Jesus was created perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocrates
    The human perception of God is limited
    and the bible has been a wonderful aid in allowing us to come to know God.
    We can actually develop a relationship with him. We know how he feels towards bad things and how he rejoices when we follows his word.

  5. #15
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocrates
    Thanks for the invitation Matronyx. I shall seek to make this discussion as interesting as possible. I guarantee that your eyes will be opened afterwards ;D

    Before we go into the discussion, let some things be clear:

    1 - God is All-Knowing
    2 - God is All-Powerful
    3 - God is All-Present
    4 - God never changes

    Ok. Now that we have those definitions out of the way, let's proceed to the meat of the matter.

    CAUTION: Opening up a can of worms - Read no further if you lack an open mind. You have been warned. Take the red pill and continue reading. I will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes - just make sure you can handle the truth!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You choose because you're a product of the universe. God is the author of the universe. He doesn't need to choose. He wills, or predestinates (same thing). Since he is the author of all things, He can decide how the story should go and how the story should end, before the story is even written. That's why there is PROPHECY

    Now for:and - Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You must remember that the Bible is Man's interpretation of God's inspiration. To man, it would Appear that God chose. But before creation, God had already scripted it that the Children of Israel would be His people. He had already scripted it that David would be king. There is no alternate universe of possibilities with God. Everything is linear. Everything is predestinated. This is why we say that God is all-knowing. If that were not the case, then He would not be God. Again, He doesn't choose. He predestinates.
    If everything is predestined, that would mean that you have no choice in the descisions you will make in life. This would also mean that mankind does not need God to guide them, since everything is already programmed.
    This line of reasoning goes contrary to what the bibile teaches at Galations 6:7 "...whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap".

    In fact, the bible says that to attain to salvation, one must keep exerting himself. Matthew 10:22 shows that only those that have endured to the end will be saved (whether that is to the end of your life, or the present system of things)

    I once asked the question: "Is it attributing more power to God when we admit that he has the power to know, than he not having any control over knowing?"

    You said that evil came from God. Yet, evil is not a thing. Evil is a quality or characteristic of something, more often that not, a person's actions.
    Sometimes a man who finds himself in problems will come to the conclusion that he is being tested by God. It is true that God allows things to happen, but he himself does not rake evil on individuals. James 1:13

    Here's another contradiction. At the beginning of the scripture, after creating each phase of reality, God thought that "it was good". Now, remember that this was AFTER he cast Satan out of heaven. Satan was residing on earth BEFORE the earth was formed out of the void. Now, I ask you this: How can God say that IT WAS GOOD, if he created the earth, knowing FULL well, that satan and His dark angels were already there? Does this make sense to you? Does the Bible's definition of God choosing, or the Devil choosing fit into this puzzle? Isn't it absolutely obvious that, THIS WAS A PART OF THE PLAN?
    Are you kidding me Xeno? :
    God wasn't contradictiing himself here, he was merely showing that man's actions do affect his feelings. Why is this so difficult to understand? This is The Perfect God, his creations are all perfect. He created Adam, Eve and the angel that became Satan as perfect beings. He did not create them as robots, thus each had the abilty to choose their own paths. That is the ONLY WAY they could have messed up. Deal with it. ;D

    That is one of the main reasons people become atheists. They cannot understand why a God perfect in all his ways would create us knowing that would be in this mess. Fortunately, if you follow the thread in the bible, you will understand that this was not his intention.

  6. #16
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    Quote Originally Posted by deakie
    besides, its the main reason why we were shoved out the garden wasnt it....it reads something like......now they have knowledge of good and bad, put them out of the garden lest they stretch forth and take from the tree of life and continue to live, for any thing that comes up into their heart(imagination), they will do.
    You are referring to two different scriptures deakie. The first that involved Adam and Eve is recorded in Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"

    The other scripture that speaks of man doing anything they set their heart at is recorded at Genesis 11:6. It was in the period when Nimrod lived and mankind in general had alienated themselves from God. It reads "After that God said: 'Look! They are one people and their is one language for them all, and this is what they start to do. Why now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them.'".

    In their bid to guide themselves, the people built a tower in opposition to God's original purpose of spreading mankind throughout the earth. God foresaw that this could result in devastating consequences, just a look at what mankind has done thus far shows how wise it is to have a creator intervene in man's affairs.

  7. #17
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    predestination seems to play a major factor. the fact that the futue is told, leads to th fact that the die has already been cast.
    when we sit down at work to discuss things, we canny help but see that events are unfolding. they arent really being made up as the next event is determined by the events now. if you see what i mean.

  8. #18
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    ok.. in any discussion about God.. GodKid must be present....


    By the way I agree wholeheartedly with Xeno...


    first point - God must be seen as ALL .. if God is all then in His perspective choice CANNOT exist... as if in choice existed then there would be posisbilities unknown.. which detroys the idea that God is all! Therefore God does not choose... He simply is!

    ... so what is free will and where does it fit in? simple...

    second point - Free will is a HUMAN condition! thus we choose... God is...

    third point - if God does not choose, yet humans do... isn't their dissonance? ... nopes.... you choose to turn on your computer... you choose to type the letter 'e' ... you choose you choose you vchoose... yet all those choices are already scripted.. by ANOTHER HUMAN!

    if people didn't know you'd buy a PC then they wouldn't make it... if people didn't know you'd type the letter 'e' it wouldn't be on your keyboard.. (just like it isn't on a JApanese keyboard) ... in other words the human condition is simple operation within parameters... some of these parameters have been generated by man (like language, the fact that the teacher stands in front of the class, etc.) ....

    if you can begin to accept that you are operatinf within a man-,ade system... why is hard to see that the man-made system must be operating within a God-made system!

    i gotta run now.. will continue later!




  9. #19
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    Default Re:The Philosophical Corner: The True Nature of God

    I was gonna cotinue... BUT i HAVE to ask Matro a question first..

    Would you agree to the following statement?

    "Man chooses salvation"

    this question sums up this entire debate....

    if you choose to agree... then there is no way you'll see Xeno's or my point regarding an over-ruling plan and the difference between CHOICE and SEPARATION from GOD's PERSPECTIVE

    if you choose to disagree... then you will have realized that man has never and would never seek after God (except by God enabling him to do so) and instead God seeks after man.... here's the point though.. how do you seek after someone while still allowing them choice from their perspective.. simple.. enable them to make a choice... that part of you which is undeniably of God WILL ALWAYS choose God once ENABLED to do so!

    want scripture to prove it? lemme see what you choose first!

  10. #20
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    Default Re:The True Nature of God

    Are you guys saying that mans ways are predestined, There is no free will?


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