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Thread: Taking the time to learn HTML well!

  1. #1
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    Default Taking the time to learn HTML well!

    Looking back on my many years of making websites and website like thingies, I have come to realise the source of alot of unnecessary problems that I struggled with.

    Started out learning HTML it was soo cool to build a webpage. Imagine a document that could be viewed by the whole world! I knew very few who could do it and I suppose it would give me an edge!

    But jumping into web design was like a nightmare, because all of sudden it wasnt just html that was needed to make that killer site of my dreams. I needed graphics, so i learnt Photoshop. Very soon that wasnt enuff, there was javascript (how funny to find out it had nothing to do with java), dhtml and flash. I took to each one. Hated javascript, damn thing wouldnt work in all browser versions. Could never get DHTML to work, flash just was not working out very nicely with my UI design. Then came the debate about tables vs divs and the CSS thing. And then suddenly I had the urge to make my websites be smart and since I was coding up a storm in C/C++ I took up server-side scripting. I had a compelling urge to learn Perl, Phython, ASP, and how to make JAVA applets. I did manage to make the proveribal 'Hello World' app in all. o my god what a whurl wind tour of web design and now development. And bwoy have i learnt so much useless stuff and wasted hours banging on a computer keyboard when i could have been out getting into trouble.

    Now finally settling on PHP and learning that, altho i read HTML fluently I didnt quite grasp all of its power and usefulness. Infact I never grasped it for most of the technologies that befuddled me. Now, more mature and in a real web development position it seems fitting to start again from scratch. Beginning with HTML!

  2. #2
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    Ive noticed that in a couple websites that I've seen major sections being headed by a <h1> header which is hidden using CSS. For example, u might look at the code and see

    Code:
    <h1>Header</h1>
    ... header code ...
    
    <h1>Menu</h1>
    ... menu code ...
    and then in the css you would see:

    Code:
    h1 {display:none}
    I suppose the reasoning behind this is that when the css is not present you see a clear layout of the page. Seeing that html is really a layout language and NOT a visual one, this would make sense. But how useful is it really. Who would be looking at your website without the css and would like to see each section nicely marked out like that. Or maybe its done as a courtesy to ppl using text based browsers. I am assuming the later case. Who is using text-based browsers tho? I suppose the visually impaired. I guess it would be cool for the text-to-speech to say 'Menu' when it gets to it. Sounds like a good idea, a site that doesnt discriminate, assuming that your site has that broad of a reach. Ne ways, enough banter!

  3. #3
    TwistedPair Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdevmaster
    I suppose the reasoning behind this is that when the css is not present you see a clear layout of the page. Seeing that html is really a layout language and NOT a visual one, this would make sense. But how useful is it really. Who would be looking at your website without the css and would like to see each section nicely marked out like that. Or maybe its done as a courtesy to ppl using text based browsers. I am assuming the later case.
    It can also be used as a clever way to boost your ranking in search engines, a lot of search engines ignore meta tags and look the first paragraph or so of text on the actual page. This can be used as a clever way to work around that.

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    how is that helping adding generic words like header, menu, footer, content, etc in h1 tags, i dont see how that improves your ranking, if anything it makes it worse

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    Its main for screen readers and page structure. since the page content should start with a major heading <h1> then sub heading <h2>, <h3> etc. Sometimes the <h1> is used as a actual heading such as in <h1>TechJamaica.com</h1> but in other times for consistency sake <h1>Content</h1> and <h1>Menu</h1> menu is used so that the screen reader options can give the user a Choice of where to start readign from (especially if the menu is the first thing on EVERY page)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdevmaster
    Looking back on my many years of making websites and website like thingies, I have come to realise the source of alot of unnecessary problems that I struggled with.

    Started out learning HTML it was soo cool to build a webpage. Imagine a document that could be viewed by the whole world! I knew very few who could do it and I suppose it would give me an edge!

    But jumping into web design was like a nightmare, because all of sudden it wasnt just html that was needed to make that killer site of my dreams. I needed graphics, so i learnt Photoshop. Very soon that wasnt enuff, there was javascript (how funny to find out it had nothing to do with java), dhtml and flash. I took to each one. Hated javascript, damn thing wouldnt work in all browser versions. Could never get DHTML to work, flash just was not working out very nicely with my UI design. Then came the debate about tables vs divs and the CSS thing. And then suddenly I had the urge to make my websites be smart and since I was coding up a storm in C/C++ I took up server-side scripting. I had a compelling urge to learn Perl, Phython, ASP, and how to make JAVA applets. I did manage to make the proveribal 'Hello World' app in all. o my god what a whurl wind tour of web design and now development. And bwoy have i learnt so much useless stuff and wasted hours banging on a computer keyboard when i could have been out getting into trouble.

    Now finally settling on PHP and learning that, altho i read HTML fluently I didnt quite grasp all of its power and usefulness. Infact I never grasped it for most of the technologies that befuddled me. Now, more mature and in a real web development position it seems fitting to start again from scratch. Beginning with HTML!
    Nice to see one more person getting back to the source.
    Those who do not understand UNIX are doomed to reinvent it poorly.

  7. #7
    TwistedPair Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdevmaster
    how is that helping adding generic words like header, menu, footer, content, etc in h1 tags, i dont see how that improves your ranking, if anything it makes it worse
    No man, I was thinking of it in more general terms. You put a h1 tag or even better a lesser used tag and you dump a lot of buzz words in to boost your relevancy and then you hide it using css. I have seen it done using less clever ways by making said text the same as the background or placing the text in the alt tags of images. Most search engines are aware of both techniques and penelize those who employ them, not sure if they are aware or can compensate for this.

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    when it comes to specifying attribute values. <length>, <number>, <percentage> why so many options i wonder? Just playing around with the line-height attribute and the css spec shows that u can specify this value using either 1.2em|14pt (length), 1.2 (number), 120% (percentage). U would have noticed that length itself can be specified in different ways depending on the unit you use. It would be so much easier on the css code reader to just have one way of doing things. But i suppose web-coder have multiple personalities just like webpages

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    when specifying value attributes using mulitple cant hurt percentage may work well with i.e but firefox wants pixels etc. it just servers for making you page render exactly how you want it in each and every browser out there.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by death_knight
    when specifying value attributes using mulitple cant hurt percentage may work well with i.e but firefox wants pixels etc. it just servers for making you page render exactly how you want it in each and every browser out there.
    actually firefox takes percentage too, well it does for line-height, because thats what im using it for.

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