how flexible is vb when it comes on to creating gui

[leoandru]

@leoandru

so what u basically u saying that to be a good programmer you shouyld be flexible and knowledgable in every programming language that u claim to comfortable in....meaning how and y the apply data moifcation and the whole nine yards basically allowing u the ability to attack any task from the correct angle__________________that sounds sensible

Yes.. I am glad you see my point . Unfortunately most VB programmers don't think they need to know the whole nine yards so that is one of the reasons why I consider the langauge and the programmers inferior.

If you are going to use VB don't just say its better and faster to develop with because you don't need to know stuff that C/C++ programmers should know.. Don't tell me that VB programmers don't need to worry about -1 << 1 because its works like you expect it to. As a good programmer you should investigate the implementation of the language to know exactly how that statment will behave, no matter the language. A C programmer will need to know he has to find a work around and a VB programmer will not. But it is not a case of the VB programmer not needing to know and he should just use it..

[masmed]

Shift left, shift right, anybody who did asembly needed to know that stuff, that isnt a big deal really, once you understand what the result of the action. I dont think that programmers should knock other programmers. No programmer knows everthing no matter how good he claims to be. To master any language it take at least 3 years of continious usage. Anything can be done with any language if you have the time. Personally i have progressed though the languages because of demand. Its what project your employer wants and how fast he wants it done. Worse if your self employed and need the next paycheck from a client. For the .net developers if you want to improve you coding , try FxCop it helps you find tune your code for speed and reliability.

[leoandru]

I agree with urs points!! I have done vba programming simply because a client needed It, I have done asp in vbscript because a client needed it. I wouldn't dare tell someone to use C only because its better.. We were just having a discussion because I explained that I hated VB when I first responded to this thread. Can you change my opinion on VB? No!! Did I tell anyone not to use the langauge? No!!


UPDATE

There were clients that requested that projects be done in VB.Net so that their staff could maintain the code.. To get it quickly done I write the code in C# convert it to VB.Net and complie it.. If I need to maintain it I Do the reverse.

[Xenocrates]

Pt. 1

I can be more productive building an app with Visual Studio in C# simple because its my prefered language and I feel comfortable with it. Can you tell me that VB.Net can do something that C# can't? Or is it suited for a particular application that C# isn't? Those are not valid reasons to switch and jump between languages, you'll end up jack of all trades and master of none.

- I think you completely missed the point I tried to illustrate in my previous post. I did not seek to compare languages and to stipulate which was better than the other. That's your debate. Not mine. My point rests on the fact that there are applications for which one language is better suited than another. While you would use assembly to write a hardware driver, you wouldn't use it to build an e-Commerce app. It's not that it can't be done, but the complexity of the overhead that you'd need to code before you get to the point where you start building the actual application is far too much - regardless of how skillful at that language you are.

Define appropriate tool!

- Any tool that gets the job done in the most efficient way. I most certainly wouldn't use C/C++ to build a desktop app in 2 weeks that I can build in Visual Basic in 2 days. I wouldn't use Visual Basic to build a hardware driver, when I'm going to end up importing C/C++ libraries at the end of the day. In both examples I just mentioned, it's not that the tool could not accomplish the job, but it's like killing a mosquito with a rocket launcher, or conversely, trying to kill an elephant with a slingshot. Use the appropriate tool for the job. The one that does it in the most efficient way is the most appropriate tool.

Where is the debate? You failed to see that each poster was voicing his/her own opinion about their prefered language..

- Actually I didn't. You are welcome to hold your opinions. But the fact is that knocking another language is pointless - even if it is just your opinion. That other language was created to accommodate a specific development purpose. Because you prefer to reinvent the wheel each time doesn't mean that it's necessarily wise to do so. But I think what's affecting our "opinions" is something called elitism.

Visual Basic serves its purpose.
C/C++ serves its purpose.
ASP.NET serves its purpose.
PhP serves its purpose.

...I could go on, ad infinitum, but I think you get the point. Some of you guys seem to hold the view that just because it is your opinion that it can't be critiqued or that you can't be wrong. What is up with that?

[Xenocrates]

Pt. 2

No one was trying to convince keroed1 to choose a language over the other..

- Neither was I. I'm not sure where you got that impression.

You need to read more carefully before you respond.

- LMA Au contraire mon ami, if you understood anything I said earlier, you probably wouldn't have posted what you had. It would appear, as though you're the one misunderstanding me.

No one was trying to convince keroed1 to choose a language over the other..

- I'm glad you finally realise this. Keoroed1 was trying to find out how to use Flash in his VB app. Not sure how this debate on languages got started...

For those of u wondering why I don't like vb. here is my story.

- Oh yeah. I remember now....and he says I don't read carefully.

One thing you need to learn Zeno.. programming languages are like a religion you can't always apply Syntactic Complexity and Analysis of Programming languages and expect to come up with a correct language for a particular application...

- You and I know that Religions are subjective things. Programming and software development on the other hand are very objective affairs. Unlike Religions, they can be measured - each and every single one of them. I won't lecture you on complexity analysis since you're already a professional in your field. It is for this same reason why we have such a heated debate about the "right" religion. They cannot be measured. Languages on the other hand can be measured precisely.

THEREFORE, knowing the limits of programming languages allows us to make informed decisions on selecting the right tool for the job. You can't tell me that the syntactic complexity of a language is not always important. As much as I would use Visual Basic .NET to build me a web application, I would still use C# to build DCOM objects to use in that application. It's not that I prefer C# to VB.NET, but it's because C# was designed for that purpose.

there are many factors which determines that, especially the availabily of skilled programmers in the choosen language

- I agree. But you make it seem as though preference for a language is the end all and be all of the issue. I'm sure you know that your personal preference can't dictate the language of choice for a project. But I digress... this is silly.

[leoandru]

LOL.. alright Zeno seems like we misunderstood each other but there were a few things in ur last post that wasn't appropriate.. like quoting me on

For those of u wondering why I don't like vb. here is my story.

followed by ..

Oh yeah. I remember now....and he says I don't read carefully.

In my first post I answered keroed1 original questions and made some comments about not liking the VB language.. Whcih was followed by questions on my dislike for the langauge.. Being the person I am I didn't see any harm in answering the question which started this discussion..

Some of you guys seem to hold the view that just because it is your opinion that it can't be critiqued or that you can't be wrong. What is up with that?

Zeno to be honest It seem like you were taking the discussion out of context.. Before reading your post I didn't see anyone saying that one should choose this langauge because it was better.. You arguments suggested we were.

While you would use assembly to write a hardware driver, you wouldn't use it to build an e-Commerce app

isn't that a bit on the far ends of the stick? I get ur point though!

- Neither was I. I'm not sure where you got that impression.

I never said u were..

elitism? .. Who Zeno isn't that a bit too strong.. I hope I didn't come across that way cause it wasn't my intention.


I'm tired I thing this thread has gone way of tangent and I must admit that I enjoyed the discussions... But I think we should close on this story.
Keoroed1 is happy and I think he got the answers to his question..

[Xenocrates]

leoandru

I agree. I believe it was a genuine misunderstanding between us. Because I swear, at one point we seem to have been arguing the same point. But alls well that ends well. So long as we delivered the goods eh?

keroed1

I think it is wise that you take up leo's suggestion on page 1 very seriously - where he suggests moving to .NET. There's very little point learning VB6 at this level, since many of the paradigms and commands have been deprecated. VB.NET follows the OO paradigm more succinctly and is a far more powerful development tool than VB6 could ever hope to be - especially with regards to ASP.NET. Trust us on that one.

[sking]

Wow! I had heard that when programmers discuss programming languages and development tools that reason and common sense fly out the window. But I never thought I would have the priviledge of actually witnessing it. Thank you guys.

[Arch_Angel]

Wow! I had heard that when programmers discuss programming languages and development tools that reason and common sense fly out the window. But I never thought I would have the priviledge of actually witnessing it. Thank you guys.

Wait a second here, hold the horses, stop di car!!!!
What are you really saying? Why you think they are discussing without reason and common sense?
Give us reasons to why you say that, instead of a blanket statement.

[sking]

Wait a second here, hold the horses, stop di car!!!!
What are you really saying? Why you think they are discussing without reason and common sense?
Give us reasons to why you say that, instead of a blanket statement.

So you decided to put me on the spot. If I want to run my mouth I have to back it up. OK here goes. [Long pause] I was just kidding you guys [backpeddling furiously].

OK, seriously I just thought the discussion was getting a little heated, and that was just my way of saying so. I have a slightly odd sense of humour. You asked for reasons for what I said. I can give those to you but that would mean going back and commented on previous posts, which would inevitable draw me into the battle, but at the end of the day what would be the point. For the record I come down on the side that says, all languages/development environments have their place (except of course RPG, which is an abomination. Ok, Ok, I am kidding about RPG, I personally hate it, but it too does have its place).