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Thread: Flow LTE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandysull View Post
    Well Well Well, Guys! Your LTE is gonna get a lot faster! I just got back to Montego Bay and if I'd thought that FLOW's LTE in Kingston was fast, just wait until FLOW is done with Montego Bay! I arrived in town only to see that FLOW now has LTE over Band 2 (1900 MHz).

    https://i.imgur.com/kz5nYcN.png

    clipped for brevity
    Interesting, any timeline for deployment in Kingston and ST Andrew?. I guess this is in response to Digicel with there plans for Carrier Aggregation. I was contacted by Flow about my issues with them. Some solutions to the annoying ones like credit being reserved for data has been worked on. But what I want to find out, why doesn't Flow inform the public about the facts. Flow has the fastest and most powerful LTE network and Mobile Network setup in Jamaica. Yet I see and hear Digicel saying they have Jamaica's biggest and fastest LTE network. Flow needs to make Thier selves and offerings known more. I recently went back again to Flow because of the experience they offer on the Network. Flow is better than Digicel on the Network and Technology side.
    Last edited by Arch_Angel; May 22, 2018 at 04:40 AM. Reason: shortened quote

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    Thats the issue i have Brandy....FLOW and its workers or backers keep doing what THEY want and not what the CUSTOMER wants. The average Jamaican cares not if the network can reach 200 megs. Infact even in USA the average speeds are like 15megs on average on LTE across the carriers. FLOW has the technology and the bandwidth. They can do it and they have done it in the past. They had the iphone plan with unlimited data back then, they have the nokia ngage plan with same unlimited data and that was on 3g or edge back then.

    They can throttle unlimited users to restrict both speeds and sites, they can throttle them to slow video streaming and fast browsing, they can restrict voip, torrents and the works. They can prevent hotspot etc. They can do it. What the customer wants is data plans which wont eat out your credit due to update etc. FLOW believed that 200 meg social media addon was something to boast about.

    What you dont know is that the young persons take up those data nights gigs and even tho Digicel is slower than FLOW its not a major difference that you can observe normally. The thing is there is alot of offers available for customers with Digicel. Tho they expensive generally they know how to appeal to every customer, they have plans with unlimited calling for prepaid that even gives unlimited text and whatsapp, that alone can win over anyone. They have 1 hour quickie unlimited plans for 60 jmd.

    I didnt normally like Digicel but i can say i am satisfied with their offering so far as FLOW is lacking. I personally dont like how lte have been slow on digicel for me at times but i see they have improved their offering with this LIT thing, so lets see. I have 3 phones, 2 note 8 plus and 1 S9+ ....one on postpaid and two on prepaid dual sims each so am able to get the best speeds if available


    So i'd like Brandy to advise his FLOW peeps that they can afford to give unlimited to prepaid if its even whatsapp or social media but at this rate no one will easily switch for just fast speeds

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    Quote Originally Posted by 876 View Post
    Thats the issue i have Brandy....FLOW and its workers or backers keep doing what THEY want and not what the CUSTOMER wants. The average Jamaican cares not if the network can reach 200 megs. Infact even in USA the average speeds are like 15megs on average on LTE across the carriers. FLOW has the technology and the bandwidth. They can do it and they have done it in the past. They had the iphone plan with unlimited data back then, they have the nokia ngage plan with same unlimited data and that was on 3g or edge back then.

    They can throttle unlimited users to restrict both speeds and sites, they can throttle them to slow video streaming and fast browsing, they can restrict voip, torrents and the works. They can prevent hotspot etc. They can do it. What the customer wants is data plans which wont eat out your credit due to update etc. FLOW believed that 200 meg social media addon was something to boast about.

    What you dont know is that the young persons take up those data nights gigs and even tho Digicel is slower than FLOW its not a major difference that you can observe normally. The thing is there is alot of offers available for customers with Digicel. Tho they expensive generally they know how to appeal to every customer, they have plans with unlimited calling for prepaid that even gives unlimited text and whatsapp, that alone can win over anyone. They have 1 hour quickie unlimited plans for 60 jmd.

    I didnt normally like Digicel but i can say i am satisfied with their offering so far as FLOW is lacking. I personally dont like how lte have been slow on digicel for me at times but i see they have improved their offering with this LIT thing, so lets see. I have 3 phones, 2 note 8 plus and 1 S9+ ....one on postpaid and two on prepaid dual sims each so am able to get the best speeds if available


    So i'd like Brandy to advise his FLOW peeps that they can afford to give unlimited to prepaid if its even whatsapp or social media but at this rate no one will easily switch for just fast speeds
    ...Unlimited LTE Data requires much more spectrum than the Government of Jamaica provides to Mobile Networks currently. Jamaica has long passed the US in average LTE speeds; our analog is in Europe and other more advanced markets. I'd rather not get into the cat and mouse chase that would ensue between users and the network to ensure adequate QoS on a still developing network and weeding out those who insist on finding ways to cheat the system and abuse the network resources and causing mayhem for those who need the network. You are forgetting that FLOW, unlike Digicel, is the network that subtends 95% of Jamaican e-commerce. FLOW's 2G & 3G network is used by all Portable PoS terminals across the island, something of which FLOW has to provision adequate bandwidth for... this is simply not something Digicel has to worry about. Until FLOW has LTE islandwide will we see the more liberal allotments we'd prefer to see. Moreover, FLOW does have a higher margin on their services than Digicel, which is precisely why FLOW has far more FCF & ARPU and can more adequately service their debt than Digicel. FLOW & Digicel's business models are also fundamentally different. Digicel is built on high risk, high debt which it can leverage to rapidly expand whereas C&W/Liberty Latin America has actual capital that it can use to fund investments or projects while keeping or extending their existing credit lines. FLOW can afford to keep a partnership with Ericsson, a partner of which their equipment is VERY EXPENSIVE to upkeep (but far more high performance) whereas Digicel, in a drive to cut costs has moved over to ZTE.... and we all see how that company is faring in the current international political conversation.

    On to the agility of services, Digicel's move to ZTE allows them to offer very low cost services than what FLOW can provide. They do this at a cost however, FLOW has now retained the exclusivity of inbound roaming from all of top networks worldwide such as Vodafone, Verizon, AT&T, EE, O2 and many more; presumably because of network capacity and, in the case of the G7 country-orignated networks, security concerns. While can offer 'unlimited' Digicel minutes (do note that they have a Fair Usage Policy which dictates how many minutes of talk time can be had per call before they disconnect the call), FLOW's Gig-Up plans also offer quite a bit of talk... I personally have rolled-over 8000 texts & minutes for FLOW to FLOW mobile & fixed landlines save for having around 9 GB of data ready to rollover to another plan. Digicel is going for one strategy and FLOW is going for the other. What gets Digicel the winning hand is their marketing know-how but FLOW has been seemingly successful in rebuffing their attempts. I do not forsee FLOW running with Digicel on a race to the bottom... FLOW is intent on maturing the data appetite of the Jamaican market and keeping Wall Street happy and, like it or not, they might just have the winning strategy.

    What is better? Which is more palatable? A bag with four bad apples? Or, a Bag with 2 freshly picked red apples? Is it the quantity of consumers that matters? Or is it the quality of services your customers are provided and ensuring that the network quality speaks for itself rather than one that is stretched thing and pretty much no better than their 4G network? These are the questions executives have to ask themselves...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan77791 View Post
    Interesting, any timeline for deployment in Kingston and ST Andrew?. I guess this is in response to Digicel with there plans for Carrier Aggregation. I was contacted by Flow about my issues with them. Some solutions to the annoying ones like credit being reserved for data has been worked on. But what I want to find out, why doesn't Flow inform the public about the facts. Flow has the fastest and most powerful LTE network and Mobile Network setup in Jamaica. Yet I see and hear Digicel saying they have Jamaica's biggest and fastest LTE network. Flow needs to make Thier selves and offerings known more. I recently went back again to Flow because of the experience they offer on the Network. Flow is better than Digicel on the Network and Technology side.

    KMA is soon and coming... FLOW is very much aware of Digicel's efforts and is well positioned to react. FLOW is the quality and speed king across the Caribbean and they will continue that streak here in Jamaica. FLOW simply doesn't spend that much on marketing as does Digicel. Digicel really should spin off their marketing department into its own entity; a great revenue driver there IMO. The term 'biggest and fastest' is not as clear cut as we think. No matter how much FLOW had the WORLD RENOWNED EXPERTS on Mobile Data Networks run benchmarks in Jamaica, which returned results in their favor, Digicel would never concede that they're truly not as able to provide that true high performace data network as can FLOW. Now with LTE Band 2 joining the parade and, I assume perhaps a LTE Band 5 foray, Digicel will likely lose their network reach advantage. FLOW can now avail themselves of up to 50 MHz of spectrum just for LTE. That's quality guaranteed and, for that I am certain FLOW will win those who are serious on having a network that serves them adequately and efficiently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandysull View Post
    KMA is soon and coming... FLOW is very much aware of Digicel's efforts and is well positioned to react. FLOW is the quality and speed king across the Caribbean and they will continue that streak here in Jamaica. FLOW simply doesn't spend that much on marketing as does Digicel. Digicel really should spin off their marketing department into its own entity; a great revenue driver there IMO. The term 'biggest and fastest' is not as clear cut as we think. No matter how much FLOW had the WORLD RENOWNED EXPERTS on Mobile Data Networks run benchmarks in Jamaica, which returned results in their favor, Digicel would never concede that they're truly not as able to provide that true high performace data network as can FLOW. Now with LTE Band 2 joining the parade and, I assume perhaps a LTE Band 5 foray, Digicel will likely lose their network reach advantage. FLOW can now avail themselves of up to 50 MHz of spectrum just for LTE. That's quality guaranteed and, for that I am certain FLOW will win those who are serious on having a network that serves them adequately and efficiently.
    That's good to know, will it be all of Kingston that gets band 2 LTE. Or will it be the highly trafficked areas in the KMA?. I also hope they have plans to offer HD voice, my call quality has improved since going back to Flows Network. But I would sure love some enhance features such as VoLTE and Video calling over the LTE Network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan77791 View Post
    That's good to know, will it be all of Kingston that gets band 2 LTE. Or will it be the highly trafficked areas in the KMA?. I also hope they have plans to offer HD voice, my call quality has improved since going back to Flows Network. But I would sure love some enhance features such as VoLTE and Video calling over the LTE Network.
    Doubt it'll be just the highy trafficked areas that will get get LTE Band 2. 1900 MHz has the ability to be a bit more pentrative than AWS because it runs at higher power. What I have realized is that FLOW is using Band 2 to fill in the areas that aren't well covered by AWS/Band 4. A great example is where LTE Band 4 would disappear in the Fontana Pharmacy at Fairview... now with Band 2 LTE, the coverage extends much further into the large building and provides greater coverage outdoors. Performance on the very cell edge is good too... LTE Band 2 gives me around 20 Mbit/s on very low signal, about half that of AWS (which makes sense since it is in fact half the bandwith of AWS). If FLOW has any areas in Kingston to fill in gaps, they will use Band 2 (I must say though that Kingston's flat geography is well covered by Band 4 and as such might not see Band 2 used for coverage augmentation as in Montego Bay but rather a second data layer; for carrier aggregation). I also anticipate that Band 2 might end up being the Band they'll use in rural areas... All their Huawei sites are already outfitted with that equipment. Do note that Band 2 is only in a few places in MoBay for now, it is not yet widespread but the network is asking all devices to select in the order of AWS LTE, 1900 LTE, 1900 MHz HSPA, 850 MHz HSPA, 1900 GSM and 850 GSM. Seems to me that GSM 850 might on its way out; GSM 1900 can do the job well; 850 should be put to use as an LTE coverage layer to enable VoLTE.

    About HD Voice, I'd gotten word from FLOW that they are very much interested in offering HD Voice but as to whether it'd be over 3G or using VoLTE, I'm unsure. HD Voice over 3G is a much smaller project than VoLTE or even upgrading 3G capacity... all it means is turning on the capability in the 'air' interface/or IuCS (or IuPS if FLOW goes the route of VoHSPA) and enable the functionality within the core network. I too have also seen improvement in the call quality recently, most calls are topping out at the very edge of AMR-NB; 12.20 kbps (you can hear it if you have a trained ear and a good handset). The mandatory multi-rate configuration for AMR-WB adds no extra stress to the network... they can also opt to jump straight to AMR-WB+ or even EVS over VoLTE (something only high end phones like Galaxy S7 and never, iPhones 8 and X support). Whatever the case is, HD Voice should be coming fairly soon, they know that customers want it and are working towards it.
    Last edited by Brandysull; May 22, 2018 at 01:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandysull View Post
    Doubt it'll be just the highy trafficked areas that will get get LTE Band 2. 1900 MHz has the ability to be a bit more pentrative than AWS because it runs at higher power. What I have realized is that FLOW is using Band 2 to fill in the areas that aren't well covered by AWS/Band 4. A great example is where LTE Band 4 would disappear in the Fontana Pharmacy at Fairview... now with Band 2 LTE, the coverage extends much further into the large building and provides greater coverage outdoors. Performance on the very cell edge is good too... LTE Band 2 gives me around 20 Mbit/s on very low signal, about half that of AWS (which makes sense since it is in fact half the bandwith of AWS). If FLOW has any areas in Kingston to fill in gaps, they will use Band 2 (I must say though that Kingston's flat geography is well covered by Band 4 and as such might not see Band 2 used for coverage augmentation as in Montego Bay but rather a second data layer; for carrier aggregation). I also anticipate that Band 2 might end up being the Band they'll use in rural areas... All their Huawei sites are already outfitted with that equipment. Do note that Band 2 is only in a few places in MoBay for now, it is not yet widespread but the network is asking all devices to select in the order of AWS LTE, 1900 LTE, 1900 MHz HSPA, 850 MHz HSPA, 1900 GSM and 850 GSM. Seems to me that GSM 850 might on its way out; GSM 1900 can do the job well; 850 should be put to use as an LTE coverage layer to enable VoLTE.

    About HD Voice, I'd gotten word from FLOW that they are very much interested in offering HD Voice but as to whether it'd be over 3G or using VoLTE, I'm unsure. HD Voice over 3G is a much smaller project than VoLTE or even upgrading 3G capacity... all it means is turning on the capability in the 'air' interface/or IuCS (or IuPS if FLOW goes the route of VoHSPA) and enable the functionality within the core network. I too have also seen improvement in the call quality recently, most calls are topping out at the very edge of AMR-NB; 12.20 kbps (you can hear it if you have a trained ear and a good handset). The mandatory multi-rate configuration for AMR-WB adds no extra stress to the network... they can also opt to jump straight to AMR-WB+ or even EVS over VoLTE (something only high end phones like Galaxy S7 and never, iPhones 8 and X support). Whatever the case is, HD Voice should be coming fairly soon, they know that customers want it and are working towards it.
    Great, I hope HD Voice or VoLTE gets here soon. What I would like is for Flow to offer affordable unlimited data plans, similar to Aliv in The Bahamas. Maybe you could suggest it to them LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan77791 View Post
    Great, I hope HD Voice or VoLTE gets here soon. What I would like is for Flow to offer affordable unlimited data plans, similar to Aliv in The Bahamas. Maybe you could suggest it to them LOL.
    I absolutely adore what Aliv is doing in the Bahamas! It is what I had hoped would have been the case for Caricel but... alas. Truly agile company with great spirit and a drive for innovation. Their plans are exactly what the doctor ordered! What is more surprising is that their network does all that heavy lifting with the same network as FLOW (Huawei) and LESS spectrum! They currently have a 10x10 channel of Band 13 and 15x15 channel of Band 4 deployed... less than the 10x10 Band 2 and 20x20 Band 4 that FLOW has deployed here. They also launched VoLTE in March; the first and only for the Caribbean. I see alot of the old Digicel in them...

    FLOW should really take a page from them... at least on the products side of things.

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    Quite right. Their poor customer care doesn't help either. Give the customers what they want and all will be well. You would think this would be the case when there is competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kknight View Post
    Quite right. Their poor customer care doesn't help either. Give the customers what they want and all will be well. You would think this would be the case when there is competition.
    I guess in all this drive for more agile corporate processes, stuff gets missed in the midst. They're truly starting to having to really compete... especially on the broadband side of things. Customer Care IMO has greatly improved but still, a lot of work remains to be done to make it even better. Cable & Wireless's VP of People is a great way to see what's happening with them... I see C&W really striving for better & greater; truly admire him as a leader and what he's already done with the organization. Again, competition is one thing but many of the changes have to begin on the inside before they can truly effectively compete.

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