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Thread: 3D printing comes to Jamaica

  1. #11
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    Well I don't mind it not being able to make a real gun, but if it can make money then that's where it would be valuable .

    Course that would be counterfeit so what's the point then?
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by datdread View Post
    Kids! Don't listen to this ignorant old fart!

    Effective solutions come through need not greed. I say more toys more play yields more innovations. Status quo is stagnation and Jamaica is stagnant.
    You damn kids get the hell off my lawn!!! What the hell is wrong with the youth today -- all that Dragon Ball and Bounti Killa I tell you!!!!
    Last edited by Satanforce; Mar 31, 2014 at 03:36 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powpow View Post
    Well I don't mind it not being able to make a real gun, but if it can make money then that's where it would be valuable .

    Course that would be counterfeit so what's the point then?
    Greed is a decent motivator. That's for sure.

    I'm thinking bringing manufacturing home.
    Steel printing replacement parts built right here. Jobs. Crime reduction. (less crime when people have money).

    Interest in the engineering profession among kids instead of the mind-numbing soul-crushing business, banking or legal options.

    This is an opportunity for Jamaicans to shed it's internationally well known "Gold Diggers" achievement. A chance to redeem.

    ****

    Who am I kidding. This is Jamaica. Nothing gonna change.

  4. #14
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    Greed is a decent motivator. That's for sure.

    I'm thinking bringing manufacturing home.
    Steel printing replacement parts built right here. Jobs. Crime reduction. (less crime when people have money).

    Interest in the engineering profession among kids instead of the mind-numbing soul-crushing business, banking or legal options.
    What you have done in the above is a classic nerd fallacy. You start with something that you like, or have a particular interest in,and then work backwards. So , say they like computers. They start with computers and then work backwards, saying that computers will solve all kinds of social and economic problems (which they never do) instead of looking at the social and economic problems, talking with people affected by these problems, and then coming up wit a solution. But before I continue,let us look at the many problems associated with Rapid Prototypers, as per their use for mass manufacturing.

    1. Speed - Rapid Prototypers take many times longer to create products when compared to traditional manufacturing processes such as CNC. Extruding layers of ABS and PLA takes time, more time than simply taking some steel, and welding or using a 3 - axis CNC saw to cut the shape that you want. And that welder is going give you a stronger and cheaper piece compared to the plastic piece from that Prototyper, which may take days to give you something off the same quality. With even the top of the line Fluid Deposition Modelling Prototypers, we are reaching the physical limits of what can be done with extruding heads - anything faster and you end up with a useless lump of plastic.

    2. Cost of Materials - The cost of raw materials makes Rapid Prototyping uneconomical for mass production. The price for low grade ABS plastic is 32 USD/kg. You have cement and 6063 Aluminium selling for 1.40USD/kg
    . And if you want somethingthat is as strong as evebn that cheap aluminium , forget about ABS and PLA filament. You're looking at 20,000USD machines using 500USD/kg resins.

    3. Mad Skills - The nerd wishes to do to the manufacturing industry , what he has done to the music industry - destroy the livelihood of skilled craftsmen and artisans so that he he can get the products and services that he wants for free, or near free. Just as he has caused genre musicians to go broke, or make significantly less money than before the dawn of Napster, so too does he want to make machinists, product designers and mechanical engineers go broke by pirating their designs, or even trying to outdo them. The poor nerd will have to overcome significant roadblocks though, like making CAD/CAM blueprints, reading those blueprints, choosing the appropriate ratio of materials , painting and detailing the surface , etc. This is not a copy-and-paste sort of thing, like with mp3 files. You need to have mad skills.

    3D printers, or more appropriately, rapid prototypers, have been around since 1987. They did change the world of design and manufaturing , because they allowed, well rapid prototypung you can see some of the results of this development in the products created in the mid 90s, early 00s.







    But these were made by skilled craftsmen and designers, not amateurs in their garages. Their mass manufacture was done not by rows RepRaps, but with the usual hand tools ,CNC machines and injection molds.

    If Jamaica has a manufacturing problem, it is not one that will be solved by cheapo toys, or expensive prototypers. It is one that will be solved by

    - putting pressure on people like Phillip Paulwell so that we have an actual government policy that is favorable to manufacturers,

    - putting in place the necessary remuneration and rewards that keep our skilled craftsmen from running off to Canada,

    - crafting an actually energy policy that puts us in the 10cent a Kw range (360MW nuclear power plants that took the Chinese 5-6 years to build the for Pakistanis anyone?), and

    - getting enough police to keep ou r workers safe, so that plants can stay open 24 ours a day, and make back their costs.

    Look at the problem , then come up with the solution , instead of bringing a gadget, and trying to fit it to the situation at hand. Don't put the cart before the horse.
    Last edited by Satanforce; Apr 1, 2014 at 04:56 AM.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanforce View Post
    What you have done in the above is a classic nerd fallacy. You start with something that you like, or have a particular interest in,and then work backwards.
    True. Attribute that to my excitement. Every argument presented is full of fallacies. Pick and choose man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satanforce View Post
    1. Speed - Rapid Prototypers take many times longer....blah blah blah
    Agreed. The technology is not mature.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satanforce View Post
    But these were made by skilled craftsmen and designers, not amateurs in their garages. Their mass manufacture was done not by rows RepRaps, but with the usual hand tools ,CNC machines and injection molds.
    I'm not sure you are correct in asserting that all these items were invented by skilled craftsmen. I'm pretty sure the desktop started in a garage by a bunch of nerds. I could be wrong though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satanforce View Post
    If Jamaica has a manufacturing problem, it is not one that will be solved by cheapo toys, or expensive prototypers. It is one that will be solved by

    - putting pressure on people like Phillip Paulwell so that we have an actual government policy that is favorable to manufacturers,

    - putting in place the necessary remuneration and rewards that keep our skilled craftsmen from running off to Canada,

    - crafting an actually energy policy that puts us in the 10cent a Kw range (360MW nuclear power plants that took the Chinese 5-6 years to build the for Pakistanis anyone?), and

    - getting enough police to keep ou r workers safe, so that plants can stay open 24 ours a day, and make back their costs.

    Look at the problem , then come up with the solution , instead of bringing a gadget, and trying to fit it to the situation at hand. Don't put the cart before the horse.
    I could be misinterpreting you statement but I seems you are again suggesting "policing morality". Already proven ineffective. Jamaica is already a "police state". I don't think it's working.

    "...cheapo toys, or expensive prototypers..." are the most effective tools available to learn with. Better options should come as the tech matures.
    Last edited by datdread; Apr 1, 2014 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #16
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    I dont think they know how a gun works. See a gun has a hammer that hits a cartridge which has gun power in it that creates an explosion that propells a projectile. You ever wonder why people don't make guns out of plastic? its not because they don't have 3d printers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkz_Zuo8g0U

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by owen View Post
    I dont think they know how a gun works. See a gun has a hammer that hits a cartridge which has gun power in it that creates an explosion that propells a projectile. You ever wonder why people don't make guns out of plastic? its not because they don't have 3d printers.
    Nope. They use a common steel pipe.

    I think new types of plastics are available and strong enough support a decent weapon. The tech should also improve.

    Then there is this.


  8. #18
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    I think new types of plastics are available and strong enough support a decent weapon. The tech should also improve.
    If you want to have anything like the lifetime (over 100,000 rounds, instead of just 1000) and cost of an AR , or Kalashnikov you will need aircraft grade aluminium for the lower receiver. And the tech will not improve. There is no Moore's Law at work here. Its basically the same stuff that was used back in 1984 (just like most power tools). And we have basically reached the physical limits with stuff like FDM.

    I could be misinterpreting you statement but I seems you are again suggesting "policing morality". Already proven ineffective. Jamaica is already a "police state". I don't think it's working.
    No. I am suggesting that there be enough police patrols and investigators to keep workers from being robbed, raped and killed when they are coming home from work.

    "...cheapo toys, or expensive prototypers..." are the most effective tools available to learn with. Better options should come as the tech matures.
    Its still cheaper to make your own CNC machine.. And you still have money left over for Statics, Dynamics, Strength of Materials, and Machine Design books/courses.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanforce View Post
    Its still cheaper to make your own CNC machine.. And you still have money left over for Statics, Dynamics, Strength of Materials, and Machine Design books/courses.
    Agreed.

    I honestly don't think a CNC machine can adequately support the many other applications that 3d printing will be used for.

  10. #20
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    Here is a related video with a more serious approach. as opposed to fantastical food and gun printing; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw6cs7opvzA

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