TAX on Computer!!!

[Ropy]

I believe the tax on PC is stupidness. It was just the other day that they made it duty free, and now them fling tax pon it. This is stupidness... Prices are already high, you can just imagine what they will be like tomorrow morning 9:00 a.m. What u think the stores waiting until May, Pondering====>I think not! To how me see if a man want parts, better mi try smuggle it in first.

Here is my solution:

(1. Fix up the economy and stop the unecessary borrowing & spending.
(2. Go to the different Hardware manufactures, and try to get them to come here.
(3. Then you can put on tax, cause that won't matter then.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is my view on this bill
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[Chris]

Oh my goodness ??? I'm speechless! :-X

This is definitely three steps BACKWARD for the local IT industry >:( I dunno what is going to happen to this country :'( Here's an excerpt from the JamaicaObserver.com's article (http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20030423T230000-0500_42867_OBS_NO_GCT_ON_MOST_BASIC_FOODS.asp):

"The general consumption tax on computers and computer parts was only removed by the Government only two years ago, as part of its push to encourage more Jamaicans to log on to the Internet."

Now what are we to think of these guys? ::) First the increased taxes that will at least affect dial-up customers and now the re-introduction of the tax on computers. With all the talk about "logging on to progress", they're now going to tax us to log on to some pie-in-the-sky progress. NOT FAIR!

[Ropy]

to encourage more Jamaicans to log on to the Internet.

Clearly they forgot about this, cause the TAX on C&WJa is now 20% and whopping 5% increase. You can definately expect an increase on your next bill.


With all the talk about "logging on to progress"...

This statement is wrong, it should now say:

With all the talk about "logging off cause of none progress"...

That's exactly what they are doing, digging a hole for themselves and dragging us along.

[DarkAngel]

The government, those morons would now be placing 15% GCT on computers and computer parts, so the family that want to have a pc to teach their child how to use it in an effort to prepare them for the world out there would now have to think twice about making that investment.
This move for sure can't help the government plans for the IT sector of which they talk so much about, the plan to get the country in a position to attract investment from IT firms, how can it when you are taxing the very tools needed for the training process, although the tax will not apply to training institutions such as school, I still think its a retrograde step by these jokers and it serves to prove that they are not serious about IT plans for this country.
The move to tax computers doesn't serve to inspire confidence in this government's IT plans, but come to think of it why should the plan inspired confidence when they have wasted millions of $$ to some of those "IT firms" who were actually involved in tele-marketing!! and not to mention their failure to produce the 40,000 IT jobs. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

[Collin]

A very backward step indeed!!!

Two years ago they made a positive step and now they are on the backward "progress" !! :-\

[sandor]

people, the govt. is bankrupt of money, ideas, and so many other things.
nothing surprises me these days.

[tech_guru]

I must say that I am indeed very disappointed that our elected officials have to resort to such measures in order to finance the countrys budget......

Such a move is a negative backward step and will only result in a country where individual who could squeeze $40,000 out for a pc now paying upwards of $50,000......

When I look at other countries who have similar tax structures they benefit from government welfare, whereas in Jamaica we are just being taxed to finance flawed "economic models"....

I would like to see some more welfare for our taxes here....Minister Davies.....

[sicholas]

THINK ABOUT THIS!

In JA, we are sure about 2 things, amoung others.

1. TAXES. - be them new or innovative or whatever.

2. The reproduction of social inequality.


Who do U think the I.T components will affect most! the middle and ruling classes can afford them, even though $ PPl can afford PC part and accessories but bawl seh it creating a hole in their pockets, bottom line is they can afford it! On the other hand what about those PPl who want a PC to help them 2 move 4ward in life, chances are they wont be able to afford it, and that in turn keep them back. U C the system is designed with these things in mind. We can all sit and CUSS GOVT but, the thing is we live in a develloping country with a weak economy and an evil tax dictator who plans and manages the finances of this country in a crappy way. another thing 2 remeber is that those clowns in parliament are not in total controll of our destiny. external factors and American new age IMPERIALISM account 4 us our country being poor also.
lets just hope things dont get worse next year. I know part are gonna be MORE exspensive now, just be glad that at least some of us can afford them.

[sicholas]

THINK ABOUT THIS!

In JA, we are sure about 2 things, amoung others.

1. TAXES. - be them new or innovative or whatever.

2. The reproduction of social inequality.


Who do U think the I.T components will affect most! the middle and ruling classes can afford them, even though $ PPl can afford PC part and accessories but bawl seh it creating a hole in their pockets, bottom line is they can afford it! On the other hand what about those PPl who want a PC to help them 2 move 4ward in life, chances are they wont be able to afford it, and that in turn keep them back. U C the system is designed with these things in mind. We can all sit and CUSS GOVT but, the thing is we live in a develloping country with a weak economy and an evil tax dictator who plans and manages the finances of this country in a crappy way. another thing 2 remeber is that those clowns in parliament are not in total controll of our destiny. external factors and American new age IMPERIALISM account 4 us our country being poor also.
lets just hope things dont get worse next year. I know part are gonna be MORE exspensive now, just be glad that at least some of us can afford them.

[pigeonflight]

I disagree with the taxing of computer parts. It is best I say no more, lest I become offensive.

[mikedaregentile]

Here in NJ we have a saying... BOHICA (pronounced Bow-hee-Ka) and stands for Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

I have a question that may not be answerable here but here goes anyway. The computers/replacement parts that I send in to Ja schools are sent free to the recipient schools/NGOs. Are my recipients gonna get screwed over by Omar and Company with them attaching an arbitrary value to the FREE machines? Any tax experts here?

[Chris]

Here in NJ we have a saying... BOHICA (pronounced Bow-hee-Ka) and stands for Bend Over Here It Comes Again.

I have a question that may not be answerable here but here goes anyway. The computers/replacement parts that I send in to Ja schools are sent free to the recipient schools/NGOs. Are my recipients gonna get screwed over by Omar and Company with them attaching an arbitrary value to the FREE machines? Any tax experts here?


Not speaking as a tax expert ... but yes. In the absence of invoices they will attach a "market value" on the equipment sent by you to the schools. What should be done though, is for the schools to apply for exemptions which they shouldn't have a problem getting. As I understand it, once the equipment is for use by a school then they'll be exempt of the taxes, as long as the paperwork is in place. Another option that you may consider is working thru an established charity.

[jamrock]

Everybody complains. Nobody votes.

[pradere]

Is this GCT on computer equipment bought in Jamaica or am I to believe that Import Duty will once again be applicable on PC parts I bring in privately?

[Chris]

Is this GCT on computer equipment bought in Jamaica or am I to believe that Import Duty will once again be applicable on PC parts I bring in privately?


pradere, not only will you be paying the 15% GCT on the imported PC parts, but you will also be paying a 4% import cess on all imported items, including PC parts. So you can expect to pay 19% of the CIF value of those imported PC parts. >:(

[Collin]

Just for clarity - is the tax only applicable to hardware or does it apply to software as well?

[Chris]

Just for clarity - is the tax only applicable to hardware or does it apply to software as well?

Good question, we need to find that out. ???

[kknight]

Nice pic Sicholas...As for this tax mess....What kind of progress is this?....Logon to what?...It's more like regress...

[sicholas]

I wonder since the G.C.T tax net has widend, if P.C repair men will charge GCT for their services ??? For PPl who pay for tech support, will that attract GCT? will software really attract GCT. what if some1 is bringing in open source software in the country, will the ignorant PPl claim dat it have a market value and estimate a price 4 it along with the GCT that they want 2 collect from it? Can U imagine it, & then diplomats and GOVT are exempted from these taxes who knows mayb top mrank civil servants may start bringing in PC parts in the name as the GOVT in order 2 evade the PC tax. Talk about a new type of crime. Will they want 2 tax donations? What if a few PC's wee sent as donations 2 the poor or schools would the GOVT wanna collect from those? I wonder if incomex aggo mek we pay GCT on old stock? mayb PPl will start smuggling PC parts if it get really bad. Or mayb I am placing 2 much emphasis and overstating how bad this tax is.



check out this pic by WEEDALIS.

- I think the guy on the right has been taught how 2 torture his own PPl and let his nation suffer by the master TEACHER of "LET MY NATION SUFFER UNDER MY GOVERNANCE" theory by the guy on the left.

[Collin]

I wonder if incomex aggo mek we pay GCT on old stock? ........


I am sure that the tax wil be slapped right across the board by all suppliers irrespective of how long they have had their stock....

It is quite simply the easy way around figuring out when what stock arrived and which items should eb changed to reflect GCT bla bla....

[Chris]

A friend just relayed to me what happened with someone bringing in a PC, printer and scanner yesterday (May 1st). They had to pay over JM$8,000 in taxes and they were told by a customs officer that it's a pity they didn't arrive the day before (April 30) because they would only have had to pay about JM$600.

So tell me, isn't this going to adversely affect computer literacy in Jamaica or what? ???

[Nastrodamus]

>:(
WHAT!!!!!!

That person was robbed!!!!!

Calculate the percentage.

Some thing needs to be done!!!!

[Spaz]

he wasnt robbed, if the system was valued at 50000 then that is the tax they would charge on it. But its really harsh buying parts and stuff now the amount I pay for tax on full system could get me a extra hard drive in the good old days.

[Xenocrates]

You know what's most fascinating about us Jamaicans? We are by far some of the strangest people on the planet, and I'm not referring only to the politicians. First, a whole slew of ppl dominate the streets in Half Way Tree in October 2002 and vote back in the worst political party in Jamaican history AGAIN.

I just don't understand people anymore. Either we are incredibly dunce or we are fathomlessly dyslexic. We were being deceived by this government for nearly 15 years and yet the people voted them in again. ::)

[Chris]

bwoy Xenocrates, don't be so hard on us, even if we (Jamaicans) deserve it. I guess the old saying "we've made our bed, and now we must lay in it" is applicable here. ::)

[Xenocrates]

Chris, you're right. Perhaps I was a tad too emotional in that last post... forgive me folks. I really should know better.

It's just that I get really peeved when really intelligent people do really questionable things (like the last elections for example) and then blame someone else (the gov't) for their own mistakes. I suppose the larger problem stems to the uneducated illiterate masses of rural Jamaica. But I know some people in higher positions who are supposed to be intelligent people too - and now even they are contemplating a coup d'etat.

Have we forgotten who we are dealing with? Clearly! Well since only a few of us are well informed, let's tabulate the math together boys and girls! Pay close attention, this is going to be harsh!

1 - Zinc Scandal (1989): Over half a billion dollars worth of hurricane relief zinc vanishes into thin air as political favourites, particularly members of parliament somehow get their hands on the zinc before the people who really need it.

2 - Shell Waiver Scandal (1991): Nearly 30 million dollars of duties on the Shell Company - Mr Patterson had to resign in public interest (fascinating how he's now PM, telltale of our intelligence).

3 - Furniture Scandal (1991): Over ten million dollars (of OUR PARENTS' tax money) spent to furnish a town house for then foreign minister, Ben Clare...

4 - Public Sector Salaries Scandal (1998): Where hundreds of millions (estimated over ½billion) were paid out to upper level managers and directors. Totals so profane, they were forced to declare their assets!! BOJ boss Derick Latibeaudiere was getting 12 million per year in total salaries!! (after allowances etc.) several other top bosses were in trouble as well. All of these bad guys were being paid WELL above GOJ guidelines!

5 - NetServ Scandal (2001): Where over 220 million vanished into an unnamed Swiss Bank account of the then failed IT company that Dr. Phillip Paulwell was directly responsible for. The money could not be traced. The IT company packed up and left (with OUR tax dollars!)

5 - Operation Pride Scandal (1997 - 2002): Where over 5.5 billion dollars (and counting) was overpaid on particular housing projects with which Dr. Carl Blythe was implicated (and later acquitted by our corrupt PM). There was so much money paid out on that housing project, it was enough to build that housing scheme 15 times over!!! They are STILL tracking the apparent "misappropriation" of funds where that is concerned. Ruling party officials paid their socialist media house (who will not be named) to cover it up and make it seem like a gross accounting error (amongst other things).

Put all of these totals together, and we have an (estimated) 10 BILLION dollars worth of misappropriated funds! (of which only 6.5 billion is accounted for!)

.....and then we vote these people back into power, only to have them ROB us again, and then have the nerve to complain about it? Are WE LISTENING TO OURSELVES?!

Now this latest development, Mr. Davies (clearly) overspent on their overly successful election campaign (in which thousands of mindless Jamaicans with NO MEMORY gladly participated) and so to punish the very same people that voted them back into power, they TAX everything that is not nailed down!

How about that? Chris, maybe I was too hard in that last post, but we cannot deny that we Jamaicans either:

1 - Possess the memory span of a fruit fly (3 - 5 seconds)


-OR-

2 - Are incredibly dyslexic.

I'll end this long winded post with an anecdote for all of us to seriously contemplate:


A scorpion wanted to cross a river, but could not find a way over it. He saw a wolf close by, and asked for his help. "Would you let me climb on your back to cross the river?", he asked. "No, you'll sting me" the wolf declined. "Why would I do that?" the scorpion questioned, "that way, we'd both drown!". The wolf considered it, and said "all right. Hop on."

The scorpion climbed onto the wolf's back and they both started to cross the river. Suddenly, while they were in the middle at the deepest part of the stream, the wolf felt a stinging pain in his neck. "Why did you do that?" the wolf asked, "now we'll both drown!". The scorpion replied "I don't know, ...it's just my nature..."


- Xeno.

[sandor]

xenocrates .. for some reason the j'can voting population seems to have a very short memory. we quickly 'forgive & forget'. i'll never forget PJ's words after the shell waiver scandal and he resigned ... "i shall return" .. and "return" he did ... to be LEADER OF THE PNP AND THE COUNTRY.

personally i think a lot of the 'intelligent' people simply are not voting. which leaves the election decisions and results up to those who forget all those scandals you just named, but remember the last plate of curry goat (and the t-shirt) that they got and who gave it to them.

[Xenocrates]

Oh yes, "I shall return" - a telltale sign of his manipulative prowess. I can't forget that. You gotta hand it to him, PJ is a brilliant illusionist. I mean, how many people can hypnotize the mass population of almost 3 million odd for nearly 15 years in a row? You gotta give even the devil his credit.

[Chris]

Yes, it's sad indeed. ??? It's even sadder to realise that while GCT was not increased across the board as expected by some, the majority fail to realise that the 4% import cess will practically affect everything and will in effect be just like an across the board tax increase, just under a different name! Talk about wolf in sheep's clothing!

[sicholas]

I thought I was fed up with the mindless masses of working class people who accounts for a high %age of the electorate, but XENOCRATES seems to be more ANGRY than I am. Some of U guys may say that it's illiteracy that's the main reason Y these PPL cant see that they were/ARE being raped by the GOVT but I dont think its illiteracy or ignorance! cuz they know better, its just that here in Ja. "common sense is not very common."

Realisticaly we have to find funds for debt financing.
We owe like 601 billion $
That means the GOVT will have 2 tax even the air we breathe! Be it Omar or Eddie or any other Politician.
Realisticaly things will continue as they are cuz of our socioeconomic situation. + Develloped nations are giving us XXXXXX-XXXX intercourse via MODERN day IMPERIALISm and our GOVT and even the MASSSES join the orgy.
Just get used it it gals and guys and hope that the increase next year will not be too high.

Another thing that I've been pondering is this PPL:
I "heard" that the GOVT will be TAXIN remmitance that goes out and comes in di country. - I dont know how true this is but I mean thats just plain cruel. Anyhow if this is true U can always open a foreign currency account and have PPL wire $ 2 ur account 2 espcape the remmitance GCT if there exists such a thing.

The future of the country and even the amount of hardware I can buy just gets worse with this current GOVT. & it looks as if they will be about 4 a very long while, messing up the country and encouraging BRAIN DRAIN. Y is this cuz ghetto PPL are so tribalisticaly inclined and as 4 non-garrison areas those who can think properly out# those who have a little sense. As for our corrupt Politicians, well we cant blame them cuz being shady is a prerequisite of being a Politician but who knows mayb sum1 will cap 1 of them and they'll start 2 treat the nation's affairs better.

[Xenocrates]

"common sense is not very common."


- BRILLIANT! Absolutely brilliant deduction! Could not have said it better m'self.



We owe like 601 billion $


- My yout, you were still counting? I lost track of it about 6 years ago. L ;D L


I "heard" that the GOVT will be TAXIN remmitance that goes out and comes in di country. - I dont know how true this is but I mean thats just plain cruel.


- It's true. I verified this on the news this eve. The foreign affairs minister presented some facts at a briefing today, stating that the some 1.8 million J'cans abroad account for 12% of our GDP, via remittance and otherwise. He quoted some billion dollar figure and (slyly) suggested that you can "do the math" on the tax revenue that could be gained from this.



being shady is a prerequisite of being a Politician


- Not necessarily. Singapore has by far the world's most well developed economy (surpassing even that of the US in terms of dollars per capita). This was achieved by some of the most selfless, self-sacrificial rulership I have ever seen. The Singapore cabinet ministers (including their PM) worked for free (while maintaining their own businesses), forgoing the salaries of all major public sector permanent secretaries to get their country out of debt. :o

Furthermore, Singapore does MASSIVE in market purchasing (in other words, importation is almost unheard of). So their money goes right back into their economic system. Furthermore, this allows massive diversification in their economy. Especially in the way of technology. If you can think of it, they make it in Singapore. Don't believe me? How many sticks of RDRAM do you remember buying that was made in Singapore? How many Microprocessors do you remember that was made in Singapore? You can also check your Monitors, Keyboards, Mice, some console systems (XBOX, GameCube, PS2 - depending on where they're being shipped to), appliances such as VCRs, TVs, Toasters, Radios........... and the list goes on. Do you know how much money Singapore makes from export ALONE?

Their economy is running at something like an average of about US $600,000 per capita :o :o :o ..... u do the math....

Because of the selfless nature of Singapore's cabinet ministers, their country moved from being a third world directly to a first world economy in a few years. Economists say they were never a 2nd world country. Their growth just suddenly spiked and the S-Curve is almost flat lined at the top of the graph. Those politicians are some of the most disciplined people on the planet. Talk about integrity.

I think the biggest problem is really human nature. Put yourself in their shoes, do you honestly think that if the opportunity to make hundreds of millions of dollars presented itself in light of running a country, would you forgo it? How long could you hold out for? Would you give in to the peer pressure of your older more skilled white collar thieving colleagues?

Personally, I think that many politicians have good intentions - at least to begin with. But as the great Greek philosopher Socrates once put it, "To judge the true nature of a man's virtue, give him money and power, and see what he does with it".

- Xenocrates

[sandor]

for those thinking of escaping pj and omar by heading north .. check this article:
Tech Workers Face Tough Job Market
Facing plenty of competition, applicants need more IT skills than ever. (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110584,tk,dn050503X,00.asp)


here's one i just came across which could mean something positive for jamaica's call center industry:
Generally speaking, the long-term U.S.
job outlook for computer programmers, help desk support staff,
data center operators, even pure application developers and
infrastructure specialists, is grim. Here's why. (http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/management/outsourcing/story/0,10801,80661,00.html?OpenDocument&~f)

[Ropy]

It's a shady deal...They taxing everybody now from the poor to the dead. What else they gonna they tax??? With a country as poor as ours, the cost of living is mighty high I must say.

[Xenocrates]

The jobs most likely to be moved from the United States are programming/software engineering positions, followed by network design and Web development jobs, according to the ITAA survey.

- This is already underway, particularly in Montego Bay and some other firms in New Kingston. That's a good thing for us either way.

But the part that really hits the nail on the head is here:


In a separate study, also released Monday, the ITAA found that women and racial minorities made little progress in high-tech employment between 1996 and 2002. Based on statistics from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the percentage of women in the U.S. IT workforce fell from 41 percent to 34.9 percent in those six years, and the percentage of African Americans fell from 9.1 to 8.2 percent.

- But sandor, you realise that these statistics are merely co-relations right? In other words, two seemingly related statistical entities that change when either one of them changes.

The mere fact that the number of minority groups in the IT industry in the US are falling may not necessarily imply that it is because of the stiffer competition.

It may simply be that those minorities have moved to another country, or may simply have gone back to their country of origin (in the case of immigrants) to start their own business there after gaining enough experience in the field. Co-relations are highly unreliable when it comes to statistics. One should treat them with a very open mind.

That is why this part is also in it:

However, when administrative positions were removed from the numbers, the percentages of both groups rose slightly.

- See that? A good statistician is always clear about other possibilities as is seen here. There is still hope of making it good in the US. Just the other day a US company was at UTECH recruiting students directly from the 4th year of Computing. They were providing them with visas and living quarters abroad etc.

If one is interested in the IT field and wants to be sure of a life after school, UTECH is the place to be baby!! ;D

[sicholas]

Ok ladies and gents,boys and girls, techies of all ages. Sicholas proudly presents a copy of an article from the observer (which he did not get permission 2 copy).


4get that still .

Remove the tax on computers


Wednesday, May 07, 2003



WE remember well the fanfare with which the Government, in 2001, announced that it had removed the general consumption tax (GCT) on computers.

The minister of technology, Mr Phillip Paulwell, as we like to say in Jamaica, "was in his ackee" on this one. The idea, he said at the time, was to make it possible for every Jamaican to have access to computers in order to take advantage of this new age of technology.

It would make us more competitive and allow us instant awareness of developments in this globalised world.

The measure was welcomed, especially by schools which were particularly happy that students would be able to widen their resource base through use of the Internet.

A few months after the GCT exemption took effect, the Consumer Affairs Commission (CAC) reported reductions in retail prices on computers and computer products.

The reductions, the CAC said, ranged between one per cent and 53 per cent for a sample of printers, monitors, scanners and software. Their survey covered 34 computer retail outlets in Kingston and St Andrew, Portmore, Spanish Town, and Montego Bay.

So, the tax exemption was having the desired effect -- making computers and their accessories affordable to the ordinary Jamaican.

We were, therefore, startled by the Government's decision to reintroduce the 15 per cent tax on computers in this year's budget, as announced by Finance Minister Dr Omar Davies last month.

With one stroke of the pen, the Government has effectively made it more difficult for Jamaicans, especially students, to take advantage of this new age of technology -- a position so passionately advocated by Mr Paulwell less than two years ago.

That such a commendable policy has been reversed in under two years, makes us ponder whether it was designed to attract votes, given that general elections were held just 18 months later.

If the administration wants to convince the Jamaican people that it was really being genuine when it implemented the tax exemption in 2001, it ought to reverse this decision.

For, we cannot expect that we will effectively compete in a technologically-advanced world if costs deny us access to the very technology we are required to use

[vicesquad]

Everybody complains. Nobody votes.


In all the discussion thus far I think this is the point that summaries this issue.

[sicholas]

"EVERY1 complains, no one votes" - This my friends is a misleading statement. Remember it is the masses whom account for a large percentage of the electorate, thus based on this fact in almost any given constituency it is members of the working class (ghetto PPL) (impoverished PPL) (dehumanised political tribe members) who's votes make up the bulk of VOTES & it would prove a bit difficult for other social classes to outvote these PPl based on thier share numbers.
simply put. it hard fi outvote wagganis!
Now I dont really want 2 get in2 a political debate however @ this stage it seems inevitable so here goes.

JAMROCK reminds us that we all complain but dont vote.
can the middle and upper classes out vote the masses in most constuencies? I think not!

XENO implied that the current political administration is the worst thus far, and PPL still voted them in. we should then ask ourselves Y they voted them back in. well a guy 1nce told me dat 3quarter of JAmaica is PNP, sounds like rubbish but in a sense his point may have been that the majority of Jamaicans is loyal to that tribe for whatever reason(s).

now honestly if I started to bash the PNP mi wouldnt stop til a mawnin so I'll not get into that.
what other alternative did the electorate of JA have apart from PJ & Omar dem? a rasta party (LOL) NDM (bigger LOL) or JLP. well many Jamaicans for some uncomprehendable reason dislike Eddie, & bcuz of that dem either naw vote or dem a vote fi di next best or worse thing that can win.

REMEber we have already established that U cannot in most constituencies outvote the masses!

Our beef however should not be with the shallow/gutter minded and near sighted masses of this developing nation, it should be with those who are elected to do the public's work and just manage to screw things up!

Prime or Crime minister does a great job of campaigning, but only if his campaigning prowess could be brought to the governing and running of the country we would all live in a BETTER Jamaica. Finance Minister, financed and prolly planned many aspects of their party's campain in the interest of the party to attain success, only he could finance and plan SUMTING 2 help our country grow, but he cant be successful in this feat.

and even though I am somewhat anti PNP I doubt JLP or any other P or a bunch a RASTA could do better.

well mayb JLP. anyhow we need some politicians that can do something for the country positively. the dollar is trading 60 to 1 with its U.S counterpart! we gettin poorer and poorer and the politicians not doing anything! then again sometimes we have to consider external factors and certain circumstances and situations of the country and understand that apart from PNP mismanagement, its just destiny for JA to be filled with dehumanised impoverished inhabitants of varying political tribes who live in a hostile environment with little hope of social or economic devellopment.

[sandor]

Xenocrates .. are you living in jamaica ... plus, do you have political ambitions .. if not, you should ;D

[DarkAngel]

I am :o by the turn this thread has taken.